Home schools/Charters: Pros, cons, education's purpose?

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Sometimes I like to throw out a topic to the forum and see what the collective experience of its members can bring to the table.

HOME SCHOOLING

Some parents have taken to homeschooling their children for a variety of reasons: religious/civil/different values than public schools.
I have seen some parents who do an exemplary job of this, but also have seen an example where the lone daughter that was "home schooled"
never seemed to be doing any work and was primarily a babysitter for her sister's kids.

Most parents have to work, so home schooling is not a viable option.

Homeschooling's PROS would seem to be: parents' values are taught. Bad influences from dysfunctional kids are not present. Field trips can
be taken any time to art museums, Holocaust museum (Dallas), or anywhere else.

Homeschooling's CONS: Claustrophobic social environment without mixing with a large number of children from different backgrounds.

***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

CHARTER SCHOOLS

I have never quite understood the place of charter schools in the educational world. If they get public money, why are they allowed to have
their own curriculum?

Are charter schools perceived to be "conservative" or "progressive/leftist"?

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

PUBLIC SCHOOLS

The majority of students go to them. Supposedly in the old days, public schools' mandate was to educate on subject matter, but also to inculcate
into their students the social values/outlook that they would take to a top-down hierarchical working structure.

Now that self-employment is gaining more prominence in the working world, do public schools actually prepare their students for the work world?

***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Please comment on any of the above.

TIA / SIA

[RPB]

Raised 2 girls in Pasadena
both went to public Elementary school a while; then home schooled;
At High school, the eldest wanted to go to public school
When the younger was offered to go to public school she said heck no, look at my sister being influenced in bad ways
Both over 21 now, the home schooled one is more responsible makes better decisions/choices and is actually more intelligent.
Both have social skills, but the one from public schools uses worse judgement in allowing others to influence her while the home schooled one gets along with others, but doesn't bend to social pressures to do things she shouldn't ... she's more self-confident. She never felt a need to try to fit into a clique and give up her own values to do it. (Not parent's values, but she's so strong-willed example: she wouldn't wear 2 different shades of purple at the same time because they don't match exactly if she didn't want to)

Most parents have to work, so home schooling is not a viable option.

Not necessarily true, there's at least one retired still certified school teacher who home schools your kids at her house while you are at work ...in Houston area..I'm sure there are many.

I know several families who home-school together, at one house one week, at another house the next, and so on.

I have 2 female cousins in Abilene who were always home schooled and won national spelling bees, and got a much better education than those kids distracted by hormonal drug pushing deviants

[speedsix]

...I've seen kids homeschooled much better'n the public school system could have done it...the mother was dedicated and really TAUGHT them and made them dig and learn...I've seen a half-hearted sleep-in-till 10 effort...and it robbed the kids of an education...

...my three went to public school...and we taught them the points that we were in difference with the school system on at home...they did fine, and learned to interact with others well, which homeschooling misses on...and they think for themselves well, not like funnelheads..when I was a kid, teachers taught the children right and wrong and their moral values...now I thank God that they don't...teachers aren't what they used to be, for the most part...and that's our fault...the community(parents) used to demand the highest standards be met by teachers so the kids would see the example...and the kids knew the teachers really cared for them...too much of the teaching now is to pass the state test and get the school and district a high rating...and I've known kids who graduated and couldn't do basic things that we did in 8th grade...our kids are being robbed...and we're paying for it...

[RPB]

The "retired still certified school teacher who home schools your kids" kinda gave us the best of both worlds

[Keith B]

It all boils down to how you interact with your children and the way they are raised.

I have seen home schooled children who were so socially inept due to being too sheltered and not exposed to the real world, that they couldn't function when they got there. They had no social life outside of the home and were extremely introverted and jaded to the harshness that exists out there. Then I have seen the exact opposite because the parents searched out social activities in many areas and allowed the children to participate in them, thus exposing them to others in the world and allowing them to see what is out there.

And, I have seen kids in public schools that were exemplary (my daughter and other friends of hers) because they were taught the right things at home and church, and followed them. And of course we have seen the exact opposite.

So, each parent has to weigh the options for themselves and make sure the kid gets a balanced diet of real world, social and moral right/wrong and just generally raised in the manner to teach them to be a good person. This may be a lot easier to do in Metropolitan areas from the social interaction as there are more programs for home school inter-scholastic activities than there are in rural areas. However, in rural areas they may not be as exposed to all of the bad stuff that they would be in a metro area.

So, bottom line, use your best judgment on what you have available and where you think they need to be and go for it.

[dfwxd45]

If my wife home schooled my kids, does that mean I couldn't carry in my house?

[RPB]

If my wife home schooled my kids, does that mean I couldn't carry in my house?

Dunno what it "means" (legally)

I know Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Bubba and I carried daily ... don't recall being ever called into the Principal's office for it (I guess that'd be Grandma, she carries a LCR with a laser grip because Mr. Arthur Itis doesn't like her racking slides)

[Texas Dan Mosby]

Homeschooling's CONS: Claustrophobic social environment without mixing with a large number of children from different backgrounds.

I have seen this argument, and IMO it doesn't hold water. There is plenty of time to learn the "social skills" anti-home schoolers advocate AFTER school during play, organized sports, recreational activities, and during the week ends.

Home schooling provides a student the opportunity to learn in an environment free of many of the distractions and negative influences that plague our public schools, and at a pace more appropriate for their level in a specific subject.

do public schools actually prepare their students for the work world?

No.

That is the job of PARENTS.

Sadly, there are parents that would be more than happy to pawn off their responsibility to the public school system, and there are those within the system that believe they should dictate how the children of others should be raised. It's bunk!
Public schools are nothing more than a supplement to the foundations that SHOULD BE built in the home by PARENTS.

Unless parents are involved to instill discipline and standards, an unmotivated kid isn't going to get much out of a public school, and it can turn into little more than a social club. Schools with a high percentage of unmotivated kids being raised by uninvolved parents are likely to be a significant detriment to the motivated students, both from an educational aspect, and a "social / behavioral" aspect.

With so many feral kids and uninvolved parents running amok these days, it doesn't surprise me that so many parents opt for private institutions or home schooling.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

A homeschooling family that I know that lives in Irving (Dallas County) has quite an extensive network of other
homeschooling families in the area. They hold sporting events and social events with one another, and each
family's belief in homeschooling is backed up by their peer families.

No one has commented on "charter schools". Can anyone contribute on them?

TIA / SIA

[chasfm11]

My wife and I are both ex-teachers.

Public schools are as different as the types of CHLers. There are those who are energetic and dedicated toward their mission and others where the school seems to exist without any real sense of purpose or direction. The term "going through the motions" comes to mind.

Our personal experience with public schools is that most of them seem to take a "one size fits all" approach. Not all kids learn the same and need different pathways to learning. There are students, like our daughter, who can absorb almost anything quickly,inherently understanding testing and do extremely well with it. If the student fits into the pattern that the school establishes, they usually do well. Visual learners fare the worst in the school environment since schools rarely fit many visual learning techniques into the curriculum.

I taught music in a magnet school with a range of students from the cream of the crop that were academically talented to several types of special needs kids (they were not "mainstreamed" in those days) with physical and emotional limitations. I often struggled to find different ways to help my students learn since I could not afford the one size fits all approach. I found several kindred spirits among the faculty and we often shared our successes and failures with one another.

My wife quit teaching early, mostly out of sheer frustration. Too often, the schools specifically mandate a style of teaching and if that style is not working with the kids that year, there is no flexibility to try something different. Especially in elementary school, some grade levels just require a different approach than was used for that same grade level the previous year. I generally hate sports analogies with education but it is somewhat like a defense scheme in football. It has to be flexible to adapt to the approach that the offense is taking. The good schools adapt, the bad ones don't.

Our experience with home schooling is pretty much the same as others. Some are extremely successful with it, both academically and socially. Some kids are saved through home schooling because they didn't fit the method of learning that the public school was providing and flourished when the educational approach was oriented to the way that they learned. The percentage that were worse off because of home schooling seemed significantly less than the percentage that were worse off in the public school environment.

[mamabearCali]

Each family must make their own decision. I have taught in public school, private school, and thus I homeschool my kids. I love the flexibility it fosters and the creativity. It also allows my eldest son to be himself and yet at the same time learn to read and write. He is not the sit still kind of a kid and though he has a great heart he just can't sit still for more than a few minutes. I am certain in a public school setting I would be getting notes home and demerits and then would be told "you have to give him medication"--fat chance. So he still learns how to read, write, add and subtract, but in such a way that he can still be himself. This fall (he is in 1st grade-ish) we get to study as a family the weather, Native Americans, and then the usual addition subtraction, writing, and reading. An additional advantage to this is that the younger children learn alongside the older (if they want to) so my 4 year old daughter can read almost as well as my 6 year old son, though he has a much better concept of math and numbers.

However I will say that if you don't want to homeschool, you shouldn't, because it can be hard and you have to always evaluate your methods, so you do have to be committed to the process.

Now on the socialization--which for the most part is utter nonsense. Do you know when I am asked the most about that--when I am at a park and my children are playing with the other's mom's children. Or while my son is at flag football practice running around with everyone else. When has public school ever been a model of socialization skills? Do I know some awkward homeschoolers--yep--I knew some awkward public school students too. The difference I have seen is that the public school kids take longer to get over their social ineptness because they are pecked half to death by their classmates and thus learn the only way to survive is to retreat into their own little world. The home school students I know that have that same awkwardness are not ridiculed, but are instead taught simple skills to overcome shyness. Could they be taught this in public school--maybe--but that was not what I observed as the SOP. Should the parents do this at home--yes, but the parents have to know that this is going on. If their kids are with someone else 8-10 hours a day, have 2 hours a day of homework, and then they sleep another 8-9 hours, there is not much time left for observation and education and oh yes we need to eat too!

For us the choice is homeschool. I support each family in doing whatsoever is best for their own family. Some it will be state school, some private schools, some homeschool. Consider what you need to then make the best decision for you and your children.

[Thomas]

I feel like public schools just suck the life out of children. I went to a public elementary school, and that was fine (no idea how they've changed in the past decade). I went to a public middle school, and it was so-so. It was a "Magnet" school in Aldine ISD (Houston). Most of my teachers then were very good, but I did have one that physically threatened me in front of the whole class (and she did get in trouble for that, but still kept her job). Then I went to a private high school.

I think the public schools greatly depend on their location. For my last year of high school, I wanted to go to a public school in a town not too far from Houston. It was in a conservative community, and it seemed like the staff/teachers were very good and caring there. (I stayed at the private school because of my parents.)

Not all public schools are bad (but I'm sure most are), you just have to shop around. While you're at it, watch the documentary Waiting For Superman and Stupid in America (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw). In the first few minutes of Stupid in America, you'll see kids ignoring teachers' requests, but that probably has to do with the level of respect those kids' parents instill in them.

The best thing you can do for your kids, is raise them right, so they know how to make the best out of any situation, such as being stuck in an out-dated education system.

[VMI77]

Both have social skills, but the one from public schools uses worse judgement in allowing others to influence her while the home schooled one gets along with others, but doesn't bend to social pressures to do things she shouldn't ... she's more self-confident. She never felt a need to try to fit into a clique and give up her own values to do it. (Not parent's values, but she's so strong-willed example: she wouldn't wear 2 different shades of purple at the same time because they don't match exactly if she didn't want to)

I think this is potentially one of the most important benefits of homeschooling.

[VMI77]

My wife and I are both ex-teachers.

Public schools are as different as the types of CHLers. There are those who are energetic and dedicated toward their mission and others where the school seems to exist without any real sense of purpose or direction. The term "going through the motions" comes to mind.

Our personal experience with public schools is that most of them seem to take a "one size fits all" approach. Not all kids learn the same and need different pathways to learning. There are students, like our daughter, who can absorb almost anything quickly,inherently understanding testing and do extremely well with it. If the student fits into the pattern that the school establishes, they usually do well. Visual learners fare the worst in the school environment since schools rarely fit many visual learning techniques into the curriculum.

I taught music in a magnet school with a range of students from the cream of the crop that were academically talented to several types of special needs kids (they were not "mainstreamed" in those days) with physical and emotional limitations. I often struggled to find different ways to help my students learn since I could not afford the one size fits all approach. I found several kindred spirits among the faculty and we often shared our successes and failures with one another.

My wife quit teaching early, mostly out of sheer frustration. Too often, the schools specifically mandate a style of teaching and if that style is not working with the kids that year, there is no flexibility to try something different. Especially in elementary school, some grade levels just require a different approach than was used for that same grade level the previous year. I generally hate sports analogies with education but it is somewhat like a defense scheme in football. It has to be flexible to adapt to the approach that the offense is taking. The good schools adapt, the bad ones don't.

Our experience with home schooling is pretty much the same as others. Some are extremely successful with it, both academically and socially. Some kids are saved through home schooling because they didn't fit the method of learning that the public school was providing and flourished when the educational approach was oriented to the way that they learned. The percentage that were worse off because of home schooling seemed significantly less than the percentage that were worse off in the public school environment.

Good general overview with what I think is an accurate conclusion about the results.

[stroo]

I have sent my kids to a fourth category, Christian schools. I did that primarily so that the school would teach the same values as we taught at home and our Church taught. With one married and through college, two others in college and one in 8th grade, our strategy seemed to have worked exactly as we expected. I wouldn't do anything different.