dogs, bicycles, rabid skunks Halt spray

[RPB]

Didn't want to put this in the "dog shooter of the week" thread but had a question/thoughts

Postal carriers/Mailmen carried Halt pepper spray for dogs
http://www.halt.com/halt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I used to have a 10% bear spray, but disposed of it as I believed it to be illegal when the Weapons laws/Penal code was changed

There have been 4 or 5 rabid skunks in the area very recently, and there's always LOTS of loose dogs around here.

I"m wondering if while riding a bike etc, :

would it be "legal" to carry "Halt" (if "regular people" can buy it)
if so, what size,
or legality of using a dog spray on a person
or legality of using a person defense spray on a dog
Texas Penal Code Section 46.05 - Prohibited Weapons
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.

So small ones for humans are ok .... but Halt is for dogs (I got rid of my bear repellant)

I like dogs; my niece loves dogs; I don't want us getting rabies shots for uncatchable loose dogs which are aggressive. My niece would probably suffocate me in my sleep if I shot one to defend her or myself..... looking for alternatives.


Halt seems like it should be "more defense-able legally" than a people pepper spray used on a dog.
Of course I'll be armed with a 9mm/.45 for people threats which call for drawing a firearm too, but ... wanting options/alternatives
Thoughts/Ideas?

[WildBill]

I thought that there was a maximum size of spray before it became illegal, but I can't find it. Although that may be for another state and not Texas.

This is a link that I posted in the Coyote thread. It shows all of the documented cases of rabies in 2011. Skunks are, by far, the largest carriers.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/uploadedIma ... itives.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RPB]

yeah I know size matters
but apparently purpose does too? (humans)

Edited above post to clarify not bears/dogs etc in definition in Penal code

Looks to me like carrying Halt is illegal, but a people pepper spray is legal, though Halt might be better/time tested/less harmful? more court-defense-able if a dog died/got ill .... but illegal to carry by definition since designed/ purpose is "not for" use on ... people

I like dogs, but not enough to lose my CHL for carrying a "prohibited illegal dog spray weapon" which might hurt a dog less than a legal "people pepper spray"

Soooo Puppy might meet Kimber Pepper Blaster.

[jamisjockey]

I was bitten by a large, aggressive dog while on a bike ride back in 2003. I don't take loose k9's lightly. Skip the spray and go lethal.

[dave_in_austin]

I think you are misreading the statute. The way I see it is:

The definition of the chemical dispensing device is " "Chemical dispensing device" means a device that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being."

The exception is for " other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection" The exception is not a limitation on what threat you are protecting yourself from, but rather the size and source of the personal protection device.

Bear spray and dog spray would both would fall under the definition of a "chemical dispensing device" since they are capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being, but if they are a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection (from whatever type of threat) then they fall under the exemption clause in the statute.

[WildBill]

Another thing to remember is that most of these products are labeled branded for a particular purpose but contain the same ingredients. If you want to find out search for the MSDS and read the active ingredients. Here is one for bear spray and the other dog spray.

http://www.macecanada.com/downloads/MSD ... nextra.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.macecanada.com/downloads/MSDS/msds_sabre.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.pepperspraysetc.com/pepper-spray-msds.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WildBill]

Here's any interesting note. Apparently in Canada it is illegal for non LEOs to have pepper spray, mace products to be used on humans. If it is labeled as a dog or bear spray, it is not a prohibited weapon and is controlled under the Pest Control Products Act. That may explain some things.

"In California, the container holding the defence spray must be less than 2.5 Oz."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RPB]

Here's any interesting note. Apparently in Canada it is illegal for non LEOs to have pepper spray, mace products to be used on humans. If it is labeled as a dog or bear spray, it is not a prohibited weapon and is controlled under the Pest Control Products Act. That may explain some things.

"In California, the container holding the defence spray must be less than 2.5 Oz."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah it's odd.

I had the 10% bear spray back before sprays were illegal and were "just a food product" and soon afterwards, Police carried 5%
One spraycan got a little oil on it and the label fell off so I'm not sure if it was for humans dogs or bears ... but it was the same spray

I got rid of all of them as they were really really old and some became illegal maybe, so I'm pepperless at the moment, but looking at the Kimber ... I had a funny thought last week similar to campus empty holster week .... if people started open carrying kimber pepper blasters and tasers to school ... wonder what other people who seem to fear "everything" would say

[mgood]

I think you are misreading the statute. The way I see it is:

The definition of the chemical dispensing device is " "Chemical dispensing device" means a device that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being."

The exception is for " other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection" The exception is not a limitation on what threat you are protecting yourself from, but rather the size and source of the personal protection device.

Bear spray and dog spray would both would fall under the definition of a "chemical dispensing device" since they are capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being, but if they are a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection (from whatever type of threat) then they fall under the exemption clause in the statute.

That's the way I read it and I was about to post something similar.

[Jasonw560]

[hoot]

I think somebody should mention wasp spray. It shoots a stream instead of a fog.
I have no first hand experience, but I have a few dead wasps that attest to effectiveness.
<opinion> it should be easier to dispense a stream than a fog </opinion>
<fact>I stay out of California.</fact>
Hoot

[Skiprr]

I had the 10% bear spray back before sprays were illegal and were "just a food product" and soon afterwards, Police carried 5%.

My semi-informed advice is to ignore both the designation (bear, dog, human, etc.) and the statement of the percentage of oleoresin capsicum in the spray. That percentage figure can swing wildly from 1% to over 20%, but it really doesn't tell you much because it doesn't measure the relative "heat" index, the Scoville Heat Unit measurement. Not all sources of capsicum are the same, and judging by volume just doesn't work. For example, I have a two-ounce canister of Fox "Five Point Three" stream-delivered OC. It states 2% oleoresin capsicum and 5.3 million SHU. I've seen "bear spray" stated at 18% OC but less than 2 million SHU. I'll take the former.

The more a product talks about the percentage of OC in its spray and avoids the actual SHU value, the more I'd be wary of it.

[TexDotCom]

I think somebody should mention wasp spray. It shoots a stream instead of a fog.
I have no first hand experience, but I have a few dead wasps that attest to effectiveness.

The only reason I would wonder about this is because it's a lethal nerve agent. That's what makes the wasps drop so quickly and decisively. In fact, we used to spray it on plants at Camp Bullis (N of San Antonio) when we did chemical training because it would show nerve agent on our testing equipment.

I'm constantly stunned anew by the number and ridiculousness (sp?/word?) of self-defense option regulations. However, fast-acting nerve agent (aka wasp spray) used on dogs is very likely to tick off a lot of folks, governmental or otherwise.

FWIW.

[speedsix]

...I do believe insectisides have a statement on them that it's a violation of Federal law to use them in a manner not according to design and instructions...prolly be sentenced to nursemaiding tree frogs for 10 years or something...

[chasfm11]

We had at least one "spirited" thread about dogs and bikes.

I ride 3 times a week on designated bike trails in my Town and have been doing it for over 5 years, Like Jamisjockey, I was bitten in the leg by an aggressive dog, too. I've given the matter a lot of thought since then.

1. My ride takes me over what could be considered two different school properties. No lethal option for me.
2. Nothing that I could have done would have prevented the dog bite I did get. It happened too fast. I saw the dog and thought that his distance from me and the fact that he was on a leash (retractable) would have prevented a problem - neither did. I have prevented two relatively close calls since then.
3. If I were going to carry something, it would be a water pistol with something besides water in it. I've tried to figure a way that I could mount a holster for a water pistol on my bike where I could get to it quickly but haven't figured out how to do it. I don't believe on body is an option because of all of the different types of clothing that I have to wear. For a dog, you have to be able to get whatever you are going to use into play very quickly.
4. I'm riding for cardio exercise and part of that is pushing my body as hard as I can. It is hard to stay in condition yellow when I'm gasping for breath but that is only for a few seconds a couple of times in my ride. Otherwise, I'm convinced that condition yellow is the solution. When in doubt, I pick up the dog well in advance and slow down. If the charge continues, I'm off the bike and using it as a shield between the dog and me. I've had several dogs break off their attacks as I either came to a stop or put the bike in their way. I admit that I've not had to deal with a rabid dog.

Like you, we've had a bad infestation of skunks. My neighbors and I went on a skunk trapping campaign. Our Town will send animal control to euthanize them once their caught We took 25 of them out in 6 months and have only seen a few individuals since. Before that, there were 4-5 skunks in our yard every night. It wasn't safe to be outside after dark. Just a thought.