GITMO

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

In my experience, melatonin is more effective. Thanks anyway, though.

May I ask what that means? I do not want to take something the wrong way...

[TxD]

Suppose Eric Holder declares you a terrorist and throws you in GITMO. Without having jurisdiction for habeas corpus or even access to a lawyer what are you going to do about it? We can just trust that everyone there deserves to be there right?

Frost,
With all due respect and hopefully without sounding too antagonistic, I completely and vehemently disagree with your view.

The people of the United States are at WAR. Each and every person is at war.
If as a citizen of the US I should succumb to the actions you describe, I will have the
Constitution of the US as my ally.
However, if I should remain locked in GITMO for an extended period of time, as grievous as this would be, I would simply be a causality of war, not unlike those killed on 911 or the wives and kids of our slain soldiers.

Here is the main point:

The prisoners in GITMO are WAR prisoners and therefore not entitled to the rights of US
citizens.

Here is an example of what happens when you turn them loose:

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — A Saudi man who was released from Guantanamo after spending six years inside the U.S. prison camp has joined al-Qaida's branch in Yemen and is now the terror group's No. 2 in the country, according to a purported Internet statement from al-Qaida.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD95ST4U00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Purplehood]

BTW, I could care less what they "do" to the rest of the prison population.

So you do not care that they recruit other prisoners to their cause so that when the other prisoners get released they can carry out attacks on US soil?

I think you are not looking at the whole picture. IF, and that is a big IF, they are put in a maximum-security federal military pentitentiary they are going to be in a population of:

A) Lifers

B) Death-row

None of the above are going anywhere. So, NO, I do not care.

I must admit that it boggles my mind that some folks think that it is perfectly fine for us to have double-standards regarding treatment of combatants. As a retired Veteran, I can tell you that my sense of honor and justice are not going to vary with each combatant that I come across.

To paraphrase a typically inane quote, "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out" is not what I would categorize as a sound, moral philosophy. I would think that I would try to do the sorting for God, then kill them if called for.

Here is the main point:

The prisoners in GITMO are WAR prisoners and therefore not entitled to the rights of US
citizens.

The point is, they are PRISONERS OF WAR. They are not being treated as such. I know of no one except Defense Lawyers that are asking for them to have civil rights like the rest of us. I, for one, am stating that they need to be treated as POWs and not put in a legal-limbo like they have been for years. This is just as bad as what the NVA were doing to the likes of John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton. We as a people should not stoop to behaviors that we call horrendous.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

They are different. They are not an army. They are not a part of the Geneva Convention they are TERRORISTS!!! If they take a soldier as a POW they put him/her on TV then execute them by either beheading or shooting them. They do not treat them like POWs or like humans. They are TERRORISTS not soldiers. I am guessing that you do not know the information flow in the prison system. Just because an inmate is on death-row or a lifer does not mean that they cannot communicate with the outside. The majority of gang leaders are in prison and actively lead gangs. All the terrorists have to do is convince the right people to join their movement and we have homegrown terrorists. All it takes is a leader to join the jihad and then distrubute orders to their gang to attack whatever and whenever the TERRORISTS want. As for letting them go to their home countries. Just read this link here... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/world ... ml?_r=1&hp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[anygunanywhere]

This will probably be deleted but I am going to say it anyway.

It is one thing to stand up for what is right, honorable, and principled, and quite another to be blinded by those principles and ignore the fact that evil exists in this world and that the only way to deal with this evil is to erase it from existence. Most of us here pride ourselves in doing what is right separate from what is defined as lawful by the myriad of laws we often find difficult to not violate. Even if we inadvertently break a law or intentionally violate traffic laws we take our lumps, pay the fines. Pay higher insurance rates and go on about our business. Our lives do not change drastically through these small infractions.

To me, the principles and value system that most hold as making them inherently American or even properly defined as members of a civilized society have evolved into a system of “zero tolerance” for using the proper definition of pure evil. We have a zero tolerance for evil but we also have a zero tolerance in defining evil and thus adequately dealing with the real thing. I prefer to call evil evil. We all know what his name is. The same zero tolerance in defining evil exists in the renaming of choosing to kill unborn babies as being “pro-choice”. Evil is evil and renaming it or failing to identify it as such does not change things or make it less evil.

These terrorists are the real thing, folks. They are true evil. They will never accept us. They will never give up their quest to exterminate us from existence except for one thing. That thing is if we were to bow down to their God, adopt their value system, and give up all that we hold dear including our freedom and salvation.

They know that the vast majority of western civilization does not have the will or stomach to deal with this evil and they will use this to steer us to the ultimate earthly confrontation when the same true evil that they are now meets with the ultimate good most of us here are waiting to see.
All we have to do is to wait and do nothing and it will come to pass. The future is written in stone and the only thing we can do is postpone it a little. If we are not going to postpone it at all then let’s go ahead and get it over with. Abandoning Guantanamo Terrorist Prison lessens the delay.

Closing Gitmo prison will not make evil people love us or make the evil go away or make us any safer.

Anygunanywhere

[stroo]

Purple,

Thanks for your service but the following is a)false and b)a calumny against all of us: "This is just as bad as what the NVA were doing to the likes of John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton."

We are not treating the prisoners at Gitmo anything like the NVA treated John McCain. We are not beating them, breaking bones, tying them into positions that cause permanent damager, not giving medical treatment or starving them. At worst, we waterboarded 3, repeat 3, prisoners. And that was the worst thing we have done. It is the only thing we have done that arguably relates to torture as historically understood.

So please let's at least get the facts right before we start making accusations.

[Keith B]

Just got this in email and think it probably applies to 99% of the prisoners we have in GITMO.

Reasoning With Ceramic Frogs
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482047,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fangs]

Anygunanywhere, I could not have said that any better myself.

These days make me wish more and more that we had a modern-day Churchill.

[Purplehood]

Purple,

Thanks for your service but the following is a)false and b)a calumny against all of us: "This is just as bad as what the NVA were doing to the likes of John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton."

We are not treating the prisoners at Gitmo anything like the NVA treated John McCain. We are not beating them, breaking bones, tying them into positions that cause permanent damager, not giving medical treatment or starving them. At worst, we waterboarded 3, repeat 3, prisoners. And that was the worst thing we have done. It is the only thing we have done that arguably relates to torture as historically understood.

So please let's at least get the facts right before we start making accusations.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[bayou_chl]

Closing GITMO is the right thing to do. For those who understand the guarantee of due process granted in the US Constitution the decision is simple. Persons who will freely abandon any of their rights for the illusion of safety are opening the door for stripping away rights they do not wish to abandon. The only hard decision is where to send them. I am in no way advocating that the be released to their native countries, that would be plain nuts!!! I am all for natural life sentences after a speedy trial.

We must not let the Terrorists win. They want us to live in a state of fear and paranoia. Judging by the comments I have read so far, they are winning. I will not live in a state of fear because someone who lives across the ocean thinks my life is an abomination and western civilization should be eradicated.

This country has dealt with terrorists since its inception and this situation is no different. Every generation has dealt with a group of people who want to terminate our existence for one reason or another and none have been victorious. Islamic extremist are no different than the past threats. This country will stand strong, defend itself, and conquer the threat.

[stroo]

It doesn't look like Obama's order really makes much difference: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/01 ... Page2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By the way, these guys are not US citizens and do not have rights under the Constitution. They may have rights under the Geneva Convention but not under the Constitution.

[bdickens]

They don't have rights under the Geneva Conventions either because they are unlawful combatants.

[Oldgringo]

Closing GITMO is the right thing to do. For those who understand the guarantee of due process granted in the US Constitution the decision is simple. Persons who will freely abandon any of their rights for the illusion of safety are opening the door for stripping away rights they do not wish to abandon. The only hard decision is where to send them. I am in no way advocating that the be released to their native countries, that would be plain nuts!!! I am all for natural life sentences after a speedy trial.

We must not let the Terrorists win. They want us to live in a state of fear and paranoia. Judging by the comments I have read so far, they are winning. I will not live in a state of fear because someone who lives across the ocean thinks my life is an abomination and western civilization should be eradicated.

This country has dealt with terrorists since its inception and this situation is no different. Every generation has dealt with a group of people who want to terminate our existence for one reason or another and none have been victorious. Islamic extremist are no different than the past threats. This country will stand strong, defend itself, and conquer the threat.

I'm with you. Let's give them a speedy trial and either string them up or let 'em swim back to where they came from. BTW, welcome to the Forum.

[Frost]

Frost,
With all due respect and hopefully without sounding too antagonistic, I completely and vehemently disagree with your view.

If habeas corpus is denied to any group then all rights can be denied to anyone by simply asserting their membership in that group. I am not willing to be stripped of my natural rights for the duration of a "war" undeclared. I am disheartened that you and so many of my countrymen are.

[stevie_d_64]

Anygun and I think alike on this one, yet most of my verbage would be un-postable in this forum...

I say give them a "speedy" trial...And make sure you pick up a few white boxes of cheap ammo at WalMart to execute the sentences...

Call me silly, I believe in frugal jurisprudence...

Go ahead, close the Gitmo detention center...But be ready for the ramifications, most of which are well documented that most of those released have recycled into the enemies ranks and have resumed fighting us...