Pet peeves outdoors

[airbornerangerboogie]

The guy that feels that he must say something every few seconds or theres something wrong, dude..when your fishing or hunting it's okay to just grunt, that what we do.

[mr.72]

mr.72,

"3. casual walkers who don't yield trail to faster-moving trail users"

By "faster-moving trail users" are you referring to bicycles?

Yes.

And while the rules are that I should slow down when I'm on my bike on the trail, common courtesy is that if you are strolling along on the trail with absolutely no urgency, you should move over whenever there is a stack of fast cyclists waiting on you. To heck with the rules. I'm not talking about bicyclists running over hikers, but really, if you want us all to get along, then you have to understand that mountain bikers are on the trail in order to ride, not stand there next to their bikes while walkers consume the entire trail.

Of course here I am talking mostly about trails where 99% of the traffic is bicycles. Slower moving cyclists always move over as courtesy. I move over when I am blocking the trail of a faster rider. That's courtesy. To deliberately block the progress of a faster trail user is just flat out rude.

[agbullet2k1]

While we're on the topic of bikes, I have a problem with group rides that aren't "organized" except on paper.

True story from Thanksgiving weekend:
The wife and I are heading to downtown Houston to see some 80's cover band that my brother-in-law and his wife insisted we had to check out. While driving (my wife was behind the wheel), we have to stop at a redlight which is situated right after the tracks for the downtown Houston Kill-a-mo-Train (METRO). Keep in mind it was about 8:00 at night and dark.

We stop short of the tracks while one car stops at the light forward of the tracks. When the light turns green, we look left and right, and upon seeing no train, fill in the gap from the front car. We were anticipating, well you know, the light being green and all. that we should be moving through the intersection. About that time, a group of bike riders coming the opposite direction turn left across the intersection (They're left turn light was RED). When I say group, I'm not talking 3 or 4, I'm talking about 300 to 400. Only about 10% had any sort of headlight, and they continued to file through the intersection for at least a minute. The front car slammed on his brakes, and so did we, right on top of the tracks.

Well, as Murphy had predicted, we hear the ever terrifying *ding ding ding* of the "Kill-a-mo-Train coming" signal, and look up through the sun roof to see the bars coming down on us. I look out my window, and sure enough, about 200 yards away was the headlight of doom coming straight at my door. The car in front of us was blocked by the group of bikers, and there were by that point 7 or 8 cars behind us that couldn't back up in time. So as we were both unbuckling and preparing to bail, the front car notices our dillema and just plows through the bikes, horn blaring. Luckily (and most anti-karmatically, in my opinion) no bikers were hit, but a few did have to veer out of the way and ended up end-oing on the curb. We managed to fly off the tracks with about 3 seconds to spare.

The bikers had no police escort, mostly no headlights, about half had no safety equipment, and they ALL ran a very RED left turn light, almost causing us to lose our car, and quite possibly, our lives. To add to our severe anger, we got quite a few NSF 10YO rule gestures and words thrown at us. We called the police, but couldn't give them any other description than group of bikers. They said it happens sometimes, but that they knew of no organized rides that requested escorts for that night in that area. Never got a call back from them.

[amber]

Loud music. Loud talking especially on cellphones.

[Sodbuster]

I lament how many poor sports permeate the gathering down at the local rec league events. Whether its mens, womens, or kids games, the poor officials get the business on virtually every single play. Its a sad fact that the worst of the verbal assaulters and offenders are also some of the worst talents on the team, or the parent(s) thereof. That brings us to the parents of the poor lil tots with half a clue about what they're supposed to know about the intricacies of the game, how to react to the spur of the moment, how to be the hero on every play, how to win and lose with character and grace. The parents are merciless, SOME parents are, not all. They chide, berate, threaten, and cajole the poor terrified lil tykes they tendered to the planet beyond mere temporary tears. I guess they just haven't woken up and realized that this vicarious living isn't all its cracked up to be.

[Abraham]

mr. 72,

I'll take the responsibility of not being clear.

When on the trail - common courtesy dictates. I couldn't agree more. People hiking should not block the trail.

That said, my point, as I mentioned before, is hikers shouldn't have to have their heads on a swivel for fast moving cyclists. They shouldn't have to be ready to jump out of the way of fast moving cyclists. Trails, especially those in state parks, aren't there as fast exercise lanes.

Now, if I'm still not clear, please take the time to verify what I'm saying with any of the LEO state park folks. They'll be happy to inform you as to who has the greater (if you will) right of way - fast moving cyclists or slow moving hikers when both are on the trail.

[Oldgringo]

Whether indoors or outdoors or wherever - I loathe child proof caps on containers.

[subsonic]

Rules prohibiting citizens from carrying weapons.

Harris County park rules prohibit anyone except peace officers from carrying. The argument could be made that the rule is not valid because it's government property but it annoys me they would even try to enforce such a regulation.

[Oldgringo]

Rules prohibiting citizens from carrying weapons.

Harris County park rules prohibit anyone except peace officers from carrying. The argument could be made that the rule is not valid because it's government property but it annoys me they would even try to enforce such a regulation.

Well, the ganbangers know who might be able to protect themselves in the parks and who can't. Who is the main gang banger in Harris County? Name names.

[quidni]

Here's one of my peeves that I haven't seen mentioned yet - loads that are not properly secured. Whether it's cargo in the back of a pickup or on a trailer, or just loose "stuff" blowing around (and out) of a pickup bed, an unsecured load is an accident waiting to happen. And unfortunately, it usually happens to whomever is driving behind, not to the one hauling the load. My husband once saw the remains of a piano that had come out of a tail-gate-less pickup on I-10....

Also - folks who let kids ride unsecured in the back of a pickup, especially on the highway.

[mr.72]

I'll take the responsibility of not being clear.

<snip>

They'll be happy to inform you as to who has the greater (if you will) right of way - fast moving cyclists or slow moving hikers when both are on the trail.

No, you were perfectly clear. So let me be clear. If you are not paying attention then you might get run over by someone on the trail, especially if you are walking casually on a trail frequented by cyclists. This is simple physics and has nothing to do with rules, whether you or I think they are silly.

There are a couple of ways this plays out. In some cases a bicycle is going 10-15 mph on the trail, rounds a corner and finds people walking on the trail and maybe it's not possible to stop the bike or avoid the walkers on the trail without crashing, so in this case, it is clearly going to result in an accident. The rules are irrelevant because the cyclist was not aware of the walker until it was too late. For this reason, I am not an advocate of mixed-use trails especially when the trails have frequent blind turns and have mostly bicycle traffic so cyclists are not expecting to see a walker.

In other cases (most cases), a bicyclist will see the walkers and slow down behind them, hoping that when the walkers hear the noise of the cyclist and notice that there is someone waiting on them, then they will be polite and move over. Again, I am not talking about park rules, but I am talking about courtesy. The cyclist is being perfectly compliant with the rules by not running down the walkers. In fact I have never, ever seen a mountain biker who ran into or through walkers on the trail when it would have been possible for them to stop by the time they saw the walking people. Those are accidents, see above. But if the walkers just stroll along and do not make any effort to move over and let people by, then they are rude, even though they may well be within the rules. You don't make friends that way.

Mountain bikers and hikers/walkers can get along on the trail as long as they both respect the other party and understand the purpose in which the other group is engaging. You may be out hiking to see animals or having a casual conversation with someone walking with you, but I am probably trying to get a workout and working on my skills on the trail so expect me to want to go fast, you want to go slow. So you will not irritate me by going slow as long as you are not preventing me from going fast. Likewise I will have minimum interaction with you if you just let me go on by. That's all there is to it.

No mountain bikers are out there trying to knock you over on purpose.

[mr.72]

While we're on the topic of bikes, I have a problem with group rides that aren't "organized" except on paper.

How else are they supposed to be organized? Can private citizens not organize their own ride? "Hey, why don't you guys meet me at 7:00am and we'll ride out to Andice from Cedar Park...". However it would be highly unusual for a ride to include 300-400 riders. I suspect you are exaggerating this number a little bit? That's over twice as many as are in the Tour de France. Anyway, closing roads for many rides is not common, and police escorts are almost unheard of for anything that is not organized by the city. Many, even most, races are held on open public roads. I suspect you would find it far less convenient for bicycle races to routinely involve closing public roads.

Now about the specifics of your story:

1. no lighting is required for bicycles by law
2. Normally a group ride tries to keep the group together through traffic lights, which is obviously what they were doing, even if the light turns red. The group is sort of treated like one large vehicle in this instance.
3. You cannot stop a bicycle very fast, and trying to do so while in a large group like this can be very dangerous. So if they were approaching the light while it was green, and then it turned yellow or red right as they got there, then it would have resulted in a giant pile up if they'd tried to stop. The safest thing to do is ride on through.

Now I know I am not going to convince you that these cyclists didn't just run the light after it was red for a very long time, and I also will not plan to convince you that it is foolish to pull up onto the railroad track until you know full well you can proceed through. But it may help to just learn how to expect cyclists to behave while they are on the road. They do what they do mostly for their own safety. Cyclists in a group of dozens or more are much safer in terms of traffic interaction than isolated cyclists or groups of just a few, so they ride in this kind of group on purpose to protect themselves.

[tarkus]

About that time, a group of bike riders coming the opposite direction turn left across the intersection (They're left turn light was RED).

I would run them over before I allowed them trap me on a train track.

[agbullet2k1]

While we're on the topic of bikes, I have a problem with group rides that aren't "organized" except on paper.

How else are they supposed to be organized? Can private citizens not organize their own ride? "Hey, why don't you guys meet me at 7:00am and we'll ride out to Andice from Cedar Park...". However it would be highly unusual for a ride to include 300-400 riders. I suspect you are exaggerating this number a little bit? That's over twice as many as are in the Tour de France. Anyway, closing roads for many rides is not common, and police escorts are almost unheard of for anything that is not organized by the city. Many, even most, races are held on open public roads. I suspect you would find it far less convenient for bicycle races to routinely involve closing public roads.

Now about the specifics of your story:

1. no lighting is required for bicycles by law
2. Normally a group ride tries to keep the group together through traffic lights, which is obviously what they were doing, even if the light turns red. The group is sort of treated like one large vehicle in this instance.
3. You cannot stop a bicycle very fast, and trying to do so while in a large group like this can be very dangerous. So if they were approaching the light while it was green, and then it turned yellow or red right as they got there, then it would have resulted in a giant pile up if they'd tried to stop. The safest thing to do is ride on through.

Now I know I am not going to convince you that these cyclists didn't just run the light after it was red for a very long time, and I also will not plan to convince you that it is foolish to pull up onto the railroad track until you know full well you can proceed through. But it may help to just learn how to expect cyclists to behave while they are on the road. They do what they do mostly for their own safety. Cyclists in a group of dozens or more are much safer in terms of traffic interaction than isolated cyclists or groups of just a few, so they ride in this kind of group on purpose to protect themselves.

Applying your earlier logic (trail riders vs. walkers), legal != prudent. Just because they aren't required to have lights doesn't mean that they shouldn't have them. The red light had been red ever since the previous light cycle, so probably 2 minutes or more (our direction got the green light/arrow before they're side, if that makes sense). We started filing forward, because at the time it turned green, the intersection was clear. It was also a fairly long distance to make it over the track, because it ran diagonal to the road.

I ride bikes enough myself to know that there was plenty of time to stop from whatever speed, assuming they had brakes. I also ride bikes enough to know that no matter what the law might say, my own sense of survival tells me the bigger vehicle has the right of way if they want it. If bikes want to be treated like road vehicles, then the same rules need to apply. Red means stop to all road vehicles, and green means go. You want to get passed that rule? Hire a police escort.

Also, most organized rides I know of down here require minimum safety equipment such as helmets and at least flashers/refective clothing at night. This is why I suspent this ride wasn't very organized/experienced. The several hundred number isn't an exageration. It was definitely more than just a few dozen friends getting together. All of the organized rides here (that I know of at least) also stop for red lights, even if it splits them up. There was a steady flow through the intersection for at least a minute (referenced by the light changing from green to red again).

I know bikers are sensitive about criticism on the road because they feel like they're always picked on by car folks. I'm a biker, too, and I've had my share of arguments about whether bikes should be on a major road during rush hour (they should, provided safe riding is observed). There is a difference between sharing the road and flat out disregard for traffic laws and other vehicles.

[agbullet2k1]

Here's one of my peeves that I haven't seen mentioned yet - loads that are not properly secured. Whether it's cargo in the back of a pickup or on a trailer, or just loose "stuff" blowing around (and out) of a pickup bed, an unsecured load is an accident waiting to happen. And unfortunately, it usually happens to whomever is driving behind, not to the one hauling the load. My husband once saw the remains of a piano that had come out of a tail-gate-less pickup on I-10....

Also - folks who let kids ride unsecured in the back of a pickup, especially on the highway.

Compost is the worst.

I thought kids in the back of a truck was illegal? Do you call them in?