Motorcycles

[gregthehand]

Here lately I've been giving a lot of thought to buying a motorcycle. Now I'm not looking for a Harley or a sport bike, but instead an Enduro. My reason for wanting the Enduro is that I love riding four wheelers and I think having one would give me the oppertunity to ride out in the same places that a four wheeler can (and possibly more). Now I know they don't look as cool on the road but I'm not really in it for the cool factor. Plus I can get plenty of practice on sand or dirt falling over instead of concrete. So here are my questions:

- I've never ridden a motorcycle in my life but I used to ride a mountain bike on very rough terrain very often (as in everyday). Are they really that similar as far as balencing them goes?

- Who teaches a good beginners class in the Houston area?

- Right now I am looking at the Honda. My reasoning being that all my four wheelers have been Hondas and were totally relliable and just great machines. I have seen that the Suzuki is a little cheaper ($500). Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[Kalrog]

Check out the Motorcycle Safety Foundation for a good intro class and several other benefits as well.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Two Wheeled Texans may have some helpful information. It's a great site for motorcycle stuff.

Chas.

[mctowalot]

I rode motorcycles when I was a kid (50cc to start) and into my early 20s (750cc). Then I got into the towing biz. After cleaning up a number of motorcycle involved accidents (and watching the EMS picking up various limbs), I'll never ride on the street again. Thats limbs of the human kind by the way, not trees. You could be the best rider in the world, but nothing will protect you from the intoxicated (or whatever) driver that runs you over and drags you down the road.

I'm sure this conflicts with a lot of riders on the forum, but I'll tell you like I see it.

One of the worst was the poor guy sitting on his "Hog" at a red light who got rear-ended. He never had a chance.

Please, do yourself and your family a favor and stay off road.

Ok, I'm editing this because I realized that I sounded like my mom. I should have said that riding on the street can be more dangerous than off road because of the nuts in cars. So watch out for them and enjoy yourself!

[The Annoyed Man]

I roadraced superbikes on the Southern California club racing circuit for a number of years back in the 1980s. My tracks were Willow Springs (my home track), Riverside Raceway, and Laguna Seca Raceway. I also rode a number of different street bikes over the years, including one Suzuki DR 650S which I owned for a while. That one was a dual sport (on/off road) bike. Other bikes in its class would have included Kawasaki's KLR 650 and Honda's XR 650. Any one of those will give you pretty decent dirt access while still functioning well as a street bike. There are others, but they tend to be too small for all around use, or too big for the dirt. FWIW, my opinion is that the 600 cc class dual sports give you the best of both worlds.

The single biggest thing you're going to have to get used to in making the transition from mountain bikes to motorcycles is counter-steering. You already do it on a bicycle, but they weigh so little and there is so little rotational energy stored in the wheels that you're not aware that you're doing it. What happens is that, as you transfer your weight sideways to lean your bicycle over into a turn, you are unconsciously applying pressure to the inside handlebar. That pressure effectively steers the front wheel out from under you, causing the bike to fall sideways until it reaches equilibrium between the force of gravity downward, and the counter force applied as centrifugal force tries to lever you upwards over the axis of the frame.

Motorcycles function the same way except that, when the motorcycle is going straight, the gyroscopic forces of the heavier wheels and the forward inertia of the heavier frame/engine/rider are much harder to overcome. Consequently, you have to consciously push against the inside bar to initiate a turn in that direction. When I first started riding street bikes on Southern California's mountain roads, I could not figure out for the life of me why my friends could just zip around corners, and I couldn't seem to make my bike deviate off of a straight line. Somebody finally clued me in, and it got a lot easier. Back then, there wasn't any such thing as the MSF courses. If I were helping somebody new to motorcycles to get started today, I would highly recommend that school to them.

[gregthehand]

Thinks for all the input Annoyed. As for the dangers of riding well I'm used to seeing them too sine I worked in LE and made some accidents myself. All I can say is that well yes it is dangerous and I'll try my best to stay safe. After reading some of the reviews I am sticking with my original choice of the Honda XR650L. I love Honda products and this looks like another great one! As for riding classes I am still looking around. I've been told to stay away from certain dealerships classes since they tend to push their products a lot and it gets in the way of the class.

[Target1911]

This wont help your hunt but may give you a little insight on the class......

Most all of the NOVICE/BEGINNER classes around DFW will teach you on a HONDA Rebel. Its a great starter bike because of its small size. The cost of the class is about $180 in this area.

I would suggest that you get the bike you want. Have a buddy ride it home for you. Find a pasture and learn to ride.
I will also say..... reguardless of how you learn....GO THROUGH THE CLASS!!! You WILL learn a lot of VALUABLE information.

Dont EVER get to point that you believe you have 100% control. That is when you become your worst enemy.

I wish you lots of Good Luck.

[PUCKER]

I highly 2nd the class as well - it's typically worth it for the insurance discount even if you were to gain nothing from the class...but you will. I've been riding ATVs/dirtbikes since I was 11 or so....raced motocross for a bit in high school and then rode the daylights out of dirtbikes in college....I've had a few streetbikes from crotch rockets to cruisers...they are all a blast! I've had my Motorcycle license (the Class M endorsement on your TX license) since I had my first bike. I took the class a few years ago with my dad just as a refresher. I buy/sell a bike every few years, currently bikeless right now. Still go riding dirtbikes/ATVs with a buddy of mine that has a garage full.

Out of all the bikes I've had, this is still my favorite one, the 1985 Yamaha TT600, I bought it when I was in high school (sophomore or junior) and I rode it all through college. I'm a huge fan of the big bore thumpers....power ANYWHERE at ANY speed....there was a street-legal version of it (the XT I think?). A buddy had the KLR650, he really liked that. I think a large-displacement dual-purpose would be a BLAST! But remember, there's ALWAYS a bullseye on you...you've gotta ride at FULL attention at all times.

I can also 2nd what Annoyed has said about countersteer - once I learned that it opened up a whole NEW world. When I took the MSF class I mentioned during open discussion the countersteering technique - the instructor was not happy at all with this, he wouldn't even acknowledge it - he kept on saying "you must lean".... Oh well...and this was coming from a "hotshot" on an R1.

[PUCKER]

BTW - I think the Honda would be a good choice...but I'm currently not well-versed on the other current similar bikes out there. Hondas are always nice.

[Fosforos]

I'll just join the choir about attending the Safety Course. You'll learn stuff you would never figure out on your own. I've talked to people who have been riding for 20+ years who do not know about counter steering and have some very strange ideas on how motorcycles steer.

[TxRVer]

When I took the MSF class I mentioned during open discussion the countersteering technique - the instructor was not happy at all with this, he wouldn't even acknowledge it - he kept on saying "you must lean".... Oh well...and this was coming from a "hotshot" on an R1.

I always enjoy a good counter-steering argument.

I have to agree with everything said here. Just want to add that the MSF also has a dirtbike course.

I haven't had a dual purpose bike since my '84 XL 250, but I find that there's a lot of interest in the KLR so be sure to check it out in addition to the Honda.

Remember that when you start to become confident in your ability, that's when you become more dangerous to yourself. More accidents happen to riders after 6 months than between 0 and 6 months. Be safe and have fun.

[macktruckturner]

Definitely hit up the course, but never assume you've learned everything. The most dangerous part of motorcycling, is car drivers. That said, it's one heck of a fun way to travel - and with gas @ $3/gal fun and great fuel economy makes a whole lot of sense! Something tells me after OIF5, I'll be riding my SV650S a whole lot more than I drive my truck. I did that after OIF3 anyway, but money will play a factor this time around.

[KBCraig]

I haven't taken the MSF course, but only because I haven't had a bike of my own since '85. I held out hope for a long time, though... I read all the major monthly bike mags from about '74 until at least '90, and only slowly tapered off after that.

I do recommend the course, though. Education is great.

As for counter-steering, I recall the Great Debates in all the bike mags. Some debated whether it was correct, or not. Others debated whether to call it "pull right, turn left", or "push left, turn left".

Debate aside, counter-steer is unquestionable. Look at pics of any bike leaned into a turn: the front wheel is turned out of the turn, the rear wheel is trying to pass on the outside, and we have the condition known as "oversteer".

For gentle riding, we need only lean and keep a loose grip on the bars, and the front wheel will turn itself. The vast majority of street riding requires zero input at the bars: the bike will steer itself where your knees (or feet on the pegs) ask it to go.

For sharper riding, direct input at the bars is required. "Push left, turn left."

I really need a bike again. I'm thinking a Royal Enfield 500 Military, with rifle scabbard and a SMLE.

[Wildscar]

I ride too and there is a saying that I have found to be true among almost all bikers from Harley riders that you can hear from a mile away to the crazy guys on crotch rockets that blitz by you on the HWY and are gone before you even knew they where they in the first place. There are those that have wrecked and those that will. It not a question of if but it’s when and how hard it’s going to be. But for almost all of these riders the thrill outweighs the danger.

[Bullitt]

http://www.awesomecycles.com/Main.htm

Greg,

I would suggest you take the BRC (MSF Basic Rider Course) at Awesome Cycles. See the link above. There are a variety of motorcycles there to choose from in taking the course. You use their bike for the course, not your own. They have cruisers (Honda Rebel 250, and Suzuki GZ250), sport bikes (Kawasaki Ninja 250), and standards (Honda CB250 Nighthawk). Anyone of these is a great starter bike. I prefer the CB250 Nighthawk, as it is an upright standard and probably the more classical of the lineup. Even experienced riders benefit from this course. A lot of older riders were taught bad habits back from the days when we did not have as much science as we have today. Enjoy the learning experience and scoot safe.

Here's a picture of my own CB250. I have since added a windshield, engine bars, and a tail rack.

Mike

.