House GOP Pledges Investigation Of DoJ With November Win After FBI Raids Trump's Mar-A-Lago

[parabelum]

"If you're whining about the FBI investigating you, you're a loser" - Trump 2016.

Provide context.
Moreover, safe to say, the agency (and others), as well as pretty much everything around us, has changed drastically since ‘16. So, context.

[K.Mooneyham]

"If you're whining about the FBI investigating you, you're a loser" - Trump 2016.

Well, the FBI used to do things like take down armed bank robbers, drug cartels, child trafficking rings, and foreign terrorists. Now they do political investigations and go after soccer moms standing up for their kids at school board meetings. At the same time, the FBI has ignored report after report by citizens that some violent whacko was planning on attacking a school, with deadly consequences. So, yeah, not the same FBI as it once was...

[mayor]

"If you're whining about the FBI investigating you, you're a loser" - Trump 2016.

Well, the FBI used to do things like take down armed bank robbers, drug cartels, child trafficking rings, and foreign terrorists. Now they do political investigations and go after soccer moms standing up for their kids at school board meetings. At the same time, the FBI has ignored report after report by citizens that some violent whacko was planning on attacking a school, with deadly consequences. So, yeah, not the same FBI as it once was...

So, on one hand, they did a great job and worked theselves out of a job (or aren't doing the job they are supposed to do). On the other hand, they're looking for work because they were too good at their work (or aren't doing the work they are supposed to do).

[powerboatr]

the search warrant lists dates of documents stating the dates of document they were looking for
jam 20 2017 thru jan 20 2021
trump stated he declassified these documents they found while still president, so why are they over concerned about those dates as he was still president ? i know to well the classifications levels some the warrant said they found ..are very odd. but it does not matter if he declassed them while in office and we dont know what was actually on the documents in question
some get extremely high classifications that really should not even be classified
would really like to know what the topic was on these documents to shed light

[Rafe]

Google-Fu as yet hasn't turned up the actual text of the warrant. However, from what I gather, the warrant really won't answer the important questions...that would be the affidavit used to obtain the warrant. So we'll get the parameters of the search, but not the core "why" and "what" that the affidavit had to show in order to get the judge to sign the warrant.

[Rafe]

Update from Fox about 15 minutes ago with additional details, but the actual text of the warrant is still evidently pending to be made public.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federa ... mar-a-lago

[extremist]

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/ ... 0_15-1.pdf

[srothstein]

trump stated he declassified these documents they found while still president

I just saw an article that said Trump had a standing order. Since he had to take work to his residence sometimes to prepare for the next day, and it would be illegal to take classified documents out of the oval office area, the standing order said that any documents he took to his residence were deemed to be declassified. He would then reclassify them the next day when he came back into the office.

If that is documented, even as a verbal order to a subordinate, it kind of blows the case out of the water. No one gets to overrule the president on what is classified or not.

[Rafe]

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/ ... 0_15-1.pdf

Thanks for the link. It seems that, unfortunately, the judge who executed the warrant, Bruce Reinhart, immediately started receiving threats that included anti-Semitic language.

Reinhart brings some baggage with him, though, to be the first judge to ever sign a search warrant served on a former President: https://heavy.com/news/judge-bruce-reinhart/. In part, he previously recused himself from Trump's lawsuit against Hillary Clinton and other dems over the Russia-Russia investigation because he didn't think he could be impartial. Signing a search warrant is a very different thing, but still...

He seems to be a lifelong democrat, was an Obama supporter and donor, and after moving to Florida--as a dem, mind you--contributed to Jeb Bush's run for the 2016 Republican nomination, presumably just to prevent Trump from getting it. He's also publicly insulted Trump on Facebook and, after moving to Florida, wrote in 2017, "It's embarrassing to live in a state that is less enlightened on criminal justice than Louisiana and Mississippi." I'm sure his fellow Floridian's appreciated that. As a topper:

The Miami Herald, in an investigation on Epstein, reported that a day after Reinhart resigned as a federal prosecutor, he began working as a defense attorney for employees of Epstein, including pilots and a scheduler. He was later accused in a lawsuit of violating Justice Department policies as a result...

Both he and his wife previously worked for the Department of Justice. I'm not sayin' he's an on-call state judge for the DOJ but, again given the historic nature of this warrant, I gotta say the optics look a bit, er, iffy.

[powerboatr]

trump stated he declassified these documents they found while still president

I just saw an article that said Trump had a standing order. Since he had to take work to his residence sometimes to prepare for the next day, and it would be illegal to take classified documents out of the oval office area, the standing order said that any documents he took to his residence were deemed to be declassified. He would then reclassify them the next day when he came back into the office.

If that is documented, even as a verbal order to a subordinate, it kind of blows the case out of the water. No one gets to overrule the president on what is classified or not.

and some of the documents they say were confiscated...you cant print from a scif room.
somebody other than trump had to acquire a paper copy for him to read. NSA? if he did not go into the scif room to read them. that person/s should be on the carpet if somehow they allowed documents to be printed and removed and or failed to maintain custody of documents or return them after they were used or read. thats the security advisor or chief responsibly

i can from real world..when i was onboard ship i had to read the OMG super secret etc the world is going to end messages everyday, these were in the secure room (scif), no pens, paper, notes, etc were allowed and you had to be logged in and out as well as which messages you read or just checked off.
then you would go back to your normal shop computer and download the heavily edited versions of what you just read so you could plan the upcoming flight ops and maintenance . at no time EVER did those messages you read in the secure room ..make it out of there in any form other than what your brain remembered, this included the CO. but during planning the intel nuts had them to disseminate , then they took them all back. accounting of messages is serious ...so i assume its still that way in whitehouse, especially when trump was there because the intell folks always told on him for dumb stuff that was really their fault


and if such documents are used by other presidents....they to shall be held to same rules?

[mayor]

and if such documents are used by other presidents....they to shall be held to same rules?

[philip964]

I have heard from a friend that the top secret document thing is not going be the charge as the President does not have to abide by those laws. He will be charged under a World War 1 espionage law set up to arrest spies.

The news was so infuriating, they were breathlessly asking the question- “Has the nation been endangered by the actions of this Former President”. As if Russian and Chinese spy’s have had complete access to Mar a Lago and to Melania’s underwater drawers.

[powerboatr]

I have heard from a friend that the top secret document thing is not going be the charge as the President does not have to abide by those laws. He will be charged under a World War 1 espionage law set up to arrest spies.

The news was so infuriating, they were breathlessly asking the question- “Has the nation been endangered by the actions of this Former President”. As if Russian and Chinese spy’s have had complete access to Mar a Lago and to Melania’s underwater drawers.

i think thats thin using espionage act. becasue the discovery portion by trumps legal team would most certainly drag comey, clinton, fbi personnel that were found to be harboring classified documents and that comey even leaked them to the press. use their NON CASES as precedent. which should force garland to charge or arrest those people if he plans on trumps charge sticking
IMO
the true RAID was mot\re about jan 6th evidence. the warrant was pretty broad .
if archives or intel folks on the premises had issue with some classified documents, they appeared to have already fixed that by him declassifying them and the double locked storage. not to mention the months long file review etc that has been going on to ensure everything was in its place .

[srothstein]

I have heard from a friend that the top secret document thing is not going be the charge as the President does not have to abide by those laws. He will be charged under a World War 1 espionage law set up to arrest spies.

The news was so infuriating, they were breathlessly asking the question- “Has the nation been endangered by the actions of this Former President”. As if Russian and Chinese spy’s have had complete access to Mar a Lago and to Melania’s underwater drawers.

i think thats thin using espionage act. becasue the discovery portion by trumps legal team would most certainly drag comey, clinton, fbi personnel that were found to be harboring classified documents and that comey even leaked them to the press. use their NON CASES as precedent. which should force garland to charge or arrest those people if he plans on trumps charge sticking
IMO
the true RAID was mot\re about jan 6th evidence. the warrant was pretty broad .
if archives or intel folks on the premises had issue with some classified documents, they appeared to have already fixed that by him declassifying them and the double locked storage. not to mention the months long file review etc that has been going on to ensure everything was in its place .

The problem with the Espionage Act as it pertains to Trump is that it requires the possession to be unauthorized or with the intent to harm the US or benefit a foreign country. Since Trump was the man in legal control of who was authorized, including authorizing himself, he could not possibly be in unauthorized possession. After the blowup of Hillary's aiding Russia case, there is no way anyone could prove Trump was doing something to harm the US or benefit a foreign country. The interesting loophole on all this is that if he was doing it to benefit himself by using it in his business, it is not a crime.

As I pointed out above, he also had no classified documents because he had declassified them. And he was the final arbiter of what was classified until Biden was sworn in.

As for the claim of violation of the Presidential Records Act, that is a possibility. But that is not a crime. There is nothing in the law that I can find that defines any penalty for the president violating it. It is in Title 44, while federal crimes are generally in Title 18 (with military crimes in Title 10).

This means there was no real legal justification for the search warrant. So, I think it was done more for political reasons and I doubt those reasons had to do with January 6th. Both this whole warrant show and the on-going January 6th circus are more, IMO, to do with discrediting Trump in case he runs again. They are deathly afraid of him getting in office again and wanted to scare him off and convince voters he is a criminal to stop them for voting for him. Ironically, I think their ploy backfired on them and convinced him to run again when he was going to not run and instead play kingmaker and support Desantis.

As I type that, a Machiavellian thought came to mind. Maybe that is what they wanted after all. They know they could not beat Desantis but they think they can beat him by convincing independents he is crooked. That is a weird thought, but possible. Either way, I believe it had more to do with the next presidential election (with a little benefit to the mid-terms thrown in) than any real crime.

And this politicization of the DOJ makes me agree that we need to remove almost all federal law enforcement and turn that power back over to the states.

[BigGuy]

I have heard from a friend that the top secret document thing is not going be the charge as the President does not have to abide by those laws. He will be charged under a World War 1 espionage law set up to arrest spies.

The news was so infuriating, they were breathlessly asking the question- “Has the nation been endangered by the actions of this Former President”. As if Russian and Chinese spy’s have had complete access to Mar a Lago and to Melania’s underwater drawers.

i think thats thin using espionage act. becasue the discovery portion by trumps legal team would most certainly drag comey, clinton, fbi personnel that were found to be harboring classified documents and that comey even leaked them to the press. use their NON CASES as precedent. which should force garland to charge or arrest those people if he plans on trumps charge sticking
IMO
the true RAID was mot\re about jan 6th evidence. the warrant was pretty broad .
if archives or intel folks on the premises had issue with some classified documents, they appeared to have already fixed that by him declassifying them and the double locked storage. not to mention the months long file review etc that has been going on to ensure everything was in its place .

The problem with the Espionage Act as it pertains to Trump is that it requires the possession to be unauthorized or with the intent to harm the US or benefit a foreign country. Since Trump was the man in legal control of who was authorized, including authorizing himself, he could not possibly be in unauthorized possession. After the blowup of Hillary's aiding Russia case, there is no way anyone could prove Trump was doing something to harm the US or benefit a foreign country. The interesting loophole on all this is that if he was doing it to benefit himself by using it in his business, it is not a crime.

As I pointed out above, he also had no classified documents because he had declassified them. And he was the final arbiter of what was classified until Biden was sworn in.

As for the claim of violation of the Presidential Records Act, that is a possibility. But that is not a crime. There is nothing in the law that I can find that defines any penalty for the president violating it. It is in Title 44, while federal crimes are generally in Title 18 (with military crimes in Title 10).

This means there was no real legal justification for the search warrant. So, I think it was done more for political reasons and I doubt those reasons had to do with January 6th. Both this whole warrant show and the on-going January 6th circus are more, IMO, to do with discrediting Trump in case he runs again. They are deathly afraid of him getting in office again and wanted to scare him off and convince voters he is a criminal to stop them for voting for him. Ironically, I think their ploy backfired on them and convinced him to run again when he was going to not run and instead play kingmaker and support Desantis.

As I type that, a Machiavellian thought came to mind. Maybe that is what they wanted after all. They know they could not beat Desantis but they think they can beat him by convincing independents he is crooked. That is a weird thought, but possible. Either way, I believe it had more to do with the next presidential election (with a little benefit to the mid-terms thrown in) than any real crime.

And this politicization of the DOJ makes me agree that we need to remove almost all federal law enforcement and turn that power back over to the states.