Texas Government Code 418-173

[philip964]

OK - legal eagles here is your chance.

Two police officers were sitting eating lunch at an out door patio of Buffalo Grill Restaurant where the owner provides free meals to first responders. A fire person came by for a free meal. She noticed the two police eating on the patio and notified the Fire Marshall who visited and wrote up the Restaurant.

The form had the following printed notice:

Failure to comply with lawful orders issued by a County Judge during a declared state of disaster (Texas Government Code 418-173)

So is there a real Texas law that suspends the constitution during a disaster?

[jason812]

I'm curious about this as well. Our little tyrant (Judge Miller Coryell County) has said we can't leave the county, non residents cannot enter the county, plus funerals and weddings are not religious events. Forum rules don't allow me to fully state what I want about him or all the other little dictators.

[powerboatr]

sounds like a fire person has a real beef with police. interesting to say the least

[OneGun]

sounds like a fire person has a real beef with police. interesting to say the least

So, why punish the restaurant??

[srothstein]

So, reading chapter 418 can be very interesting. The specific subsection mentioned says that an emergency management plan may make it a class B misdemeanor (fine of $1,000 and/or 180 days in jail) to violate the plan or an order adopted under the plan. This implies (but I cannot find explicitly stated) that the plan should be a pre-written plan so that when the order announcing it is made, the clause takes effect. That is just my interpretation though, so don't rely on it. But it never does say what the plan has to have or be.

What I found more interesting is a limitation in the law that might affect all shelter-in-place orders. There is a section that says:

Sec. 418.018. MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE. (a) The governor may recommend the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area in the state if the governor considers the action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response, or recovery.
(b) The governor may prescribe routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with an evacuation.
(c) The governor may control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area and the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in the area.

So they can order you to leave an area, or to stay in a disaster area (ingress and egress). If the state is the disaster area, can they keep you in your house? If it is a municipal plan, they can keep you in the city but I don't see an authority to keep you in your house. Again, just my opinion and I am not a lawyer, so don't rely on this interpretation.

I find two suspensions of your rights mentioned. Section 418.017 allows for them to commandeer personal property but they do have to pay for it. And 418.019 says the governor my limit the sale and transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles. I find no other mention of ny suspensions of any rights, such as to peaceably assemble anywhere.

[iratollah]

I find two suspensions of your rights mentioned. Section 418.017 allows for them to commandeer personal property but they do have to pay for it. And 418.019 says the governor my limit the sale and transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles. I find no other mention of ny suspensions of any rights, such as to peaceably assemble anywhere.

Wondering how challenges have fared, especially with regard to 2A. Can the above state laws supercede constitutional rights granted under Article Six?
Article Six of the US Constitution, which contains the Supremacy Clause*, states:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

*Supremacy Clause:
https://constitutioncenter.org/interact ... clauses/31
https://www.heritage.org/constitution/# ... acy-clause

[philip964]

So, reading chapter 418 can be very interesting. The specific subsection mentioned says that an emergency management plan may make it a class B misdemeanor (fine of $1,000 and/or 180 days in jail) to violate the plan or an order adopted under the plan. This implies (but I cannot find explicitly stated) that the plan should be a pre-written plan so that when the order announcing it is made, the clause takes effect. That is just my interpretation though, so don't rely on it. But it never does say what the plan has to have or be.

What I found more interesting is a limitation in the law that might affect all shelter-in-place orders. There is a section that says:

Sec. 418.018. MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE. (a) The governor may recommend the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area in the state if the governor considers the action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response, or recovery.
(b) The governor may prescribe routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with an evacuation.
(c) The governor may control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area and the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in the area.

So they can order you to leave an area, or to stay in a disaster area (ingress and egress). If the state is the disaster area, can they keep you in your house? If it is a municipal plan, they can keep you in the city but I don't see an authority to keep you in your house. Again, just my opinion and I am not a lawyer, so don't rely on this interpretation.

I find two suspensions of your rights mentioned. Section 418.017 allows for them to commandeer personal property but they do have to pay for it. And 418.019 says the governor my limit the sale and transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles. I find no other mention of ny suspensions of any rights, such as to peaceably assemble anywhere.

Thank you, I knew I could count on this forum.

[philip964]

So, reading chapter 418 can be very interesting. The specific subsection mentioned says that an emergency management plan may make it a class B misdemeanor (fine of $1,000 and/or 180 days in jail) to violate the plan or an order adopted under the plan. This implies (but I cannot find explicitly stated) that the plan should be a pre-written plan so that when the order announcing it is made, the clause takes effect. That is just my interpretation though, so don't rely on it. But it never does say what the plan has to have or be.

What I found more interesting is a limitation in the law that might affect all shelter-in-place orders. There is a section that says:

Sec. 418.018. MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE. (a) The governor may recommend the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area in the state if the governor considers the action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response, or recovery.
(b) The governor may prescribe routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with an evacuation.
(c) The governor may control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area and the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in the area.

So they can order you to leave an area, or to stay in a disaster area (ingress and egress). If the state is the disaster area, can they keep you in your house? If it is a municipal plan, they can keep you in the city but I don't see an authority to keep you in your house. Again, just my opinion and I am not a lawyer, so don't rely on this interpretation.

I find two suspensions of your rights mentioned. Section 418.017 allows for them to commandeer personal property but they do have to pay for it. And 418.019 says the governor my limit the sale and transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles. I find no other mention of ny suspensions of any rights, such as to peaceably assemble anywhere.

Thank you, I knew I could count on this forum.

But what about a duly elected 28 year old judge, what authority does she have?

[The Annoyed Man]

It’s seems that part of the fallout in the wake of COVID-19 will be that the civil liberties legal sector will be busy for at least a decade sorting through all of the actions taken federally and by state and loca gov’ts and litigating against them. Various legislative bodies are going to have to examine and revise their disaster management laws with an eye toward their effect on civil liberties; and SCOTUS will have some of the consequent cases on their docket. On the voter side, a very large segment of The People seem to have grown extremely mistrustful of and impatient with the arrogance of officialdom. This last one is a good thing, that hopefully will end with greater accountability from elected executives.

The Boog is that much closer.

[philip964]

sounds like a fire person has a real beef with police. interesting to say the least

There has been a little bit of friction between the police and fire regarding pay parity.

The Fire won the first round.

[RSX11]

I dunno about the legality of all this - but I do know that if I owned that restaurant, I would now be offering free meals to all first responders - except firefighters. Ratting out the restaurant was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.

[KC5AV]

I dunno about the legality of all this - but I do know that if I owned that restaurant, I would now be offering free meals to all first responders - except firefighters. Ratting out the restaurant was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.

I might go one step further and argue that the Officers were the ones disregarding the declared emergency. They were the ones seated outside, and not following proper distancing guidelines.

[howdy]

So, reading chapter 418 can be very interesting. The specific subsection mentioned says that an emergency management plan may make it a class B misdemeanor (fine of $1,000 and/or 180 days in jail) to violate the plan or an order adopted under the plan. This implies (but I cannot find explicitly stated) that the plan should be a pre-written plan so that when the order announcing it is made, the clause takes effect. That is just my interpretation though, so don't rely on it. But it never does say what the plan has to have or be.

What I found more interesting is a limitation in the law that might affect all shelter-in-place orders. There is a section that says:

Sec. 418.018. MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE. (a) The governor may recommend the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area in the state if the governor considers the action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response, or recovery.
(b) The governor may prescribe routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with an evacuation.
(c) The governor may control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area and the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in the area.

So they can order you to leave an area, or to stay in a disaster area (ingress and egress). If the state is the disaster area, can they keep you in your house? If it is a municipal plan, they can keep you in the city but I don't see an authority to keep you in your house. Again, just my opinion and I am not a lawyer, so don't rely on this interpretation.

I find two suspensions of your rights mentioned. Section 418.017 allows for them to commandeer personal property but they do have to pay for it. And 418.019 says the governor my limit the sale and transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles. I find no other mention of ny suspensions of any rights, such as to peaceably assemble anywhere.

It does not say order, just recommend

[C-dub]

Howdy, I also noticed the "recommend" thing.

For the rest, it stinks, but if we the people weren't allowed to be sitting there eating then neither should the police or firefighters. Maybe the stool pigeon was only going by to pick up a meal and not sit there and eat. The officers are just as guilty as the restaurant and maybe more so for thinking they were exceptions.

Just my 2 cents. Well, maybe 1.

[ET-Ret]

The case in question is the subject of stupid thinking. Its not the letter of the law but the spirit of the law which is important.
I grew up in Dallas in times when no one really wanted the letter of the law to apply to them. But hatefully applied to some one else.
Police and fire have jobs that require the distance thing to be absurd. I won't help that car wreck victim cause he or she may give me a bug. and other such times. that hate may come back to be on the other shoe. First responders should have free reign to distancing.
Karma can be a Bitch.