Those three officers -- Kevin Mansell, Danny Vasquez and Dustin Dillard -- were indicted by a grand jury in 2017 on charges of misdemeanor deadly conduct, three months after The News published its investigation into Timpa’s death. Following two days of testimony, the grand jury’s indictment stated that the "officers engaged in reckless conduct that placed Timpa in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.”
But in March, Dallas County District Attorney John Creuzot dismissed the charges.
The guy was right about them killing him, in a situation like that still have respect. Just because he has a mental disorder doesn't mean you shouldn't treat him like a human. Could of and should of went a lot different, dont make jokes about the guy come on were not in middle school. Treat everyone with Respect and dignity!
One of my biggest mistakes in life...Is Believing people will show me the same love I've shown them.
Versed won't make you stop breathing. Schizophrenia won't directly kill you. My guess is that this guy had a real medical emergency and couldn't express that to the first responders due to his mental illness. The sad part is that we treat these people like responsible adults rather than children who look like adults.
We do people a grave disservice by using prisons and the streets as insane asylums.
Obviously this incident could have been handled much better, with professionalism and adherence to protocols on the part of the first responders. However, it irks me that the article buries this nugget in the middle as an afterthought:
An autopsy ruled Timpa’s cause of death was a homicide, sudden cardiac death due to "the toxic effects of cocaine and the stress associated with physical restraint.".
The officers could have handled this better, but none of their comments indicate to me that they intended to cause his death, & the video doesn't appear that they we're using enough pressure to inhibit breathing (and the autopsy states sudden cardiac death, not asphyxiation). I believe the way this article, and the edited video, depicts this is greatly misleading.
Mike S wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:44 pm
Obviously this incident could have been handled much better, with professionalism and adherence to protocols on the part of the first responders. However, it irks me that the article buries this nugget in the middle as an afterthought:
An autopsy ruled Timpa’s cause of death was a homicide, sudden cardiac death due to "the toxic effects of cocaine and the stress associated with physical restraint.".
The officers could have handled this better, but none of their comments indicate to me that they intended to cause his death, & the video doesn't appear that they we're using enough pressure to inhibit breathing (and the autopsy states sudden cardiac death, not asphyxiation). I believe the way this article, and the edited video, depicts this is greatly misleading.
During training to become a licensed security guard the instructors have repeatedly emphasized how important it is to get someone you have handcuffed/restrained off their chest to prevent this kind of death.
In the video, Dillard pins Timpa to the ground with his knee in his back for more than 13 minutes. Keeping someone face-down and bound at the arms and legs is known as the "prone position," a method of restraint that is controversial in policing. Several studies have shown it may increase the risk for asphyxiation and sudden death.
Intravenous midazolam has been associated with respiratory depression and respiratory arrest, especially when used for sedation in noncritical care settings. In some cases, where this was not recognized promptly and treated effectively, death or hypoxic encephalopathy has resulted. Intravenous midazolam should be used only in hospital or ambulatory care settings, including physicians' and dental offices, that provide for continuous monitoring of respiratory and cardiac function, ie, pulse oximetry.
Benzodiazepines sensitize GABA-ergic receptors, but cannot directly activate them. Imagine hosing a lock down with WD40: a key will turn easily, but there must be a key. Ethanol is the most common "key" that people introduce into their bodies, but even that requires a fair amount before it can induce anything resembling the respiratory depression seen with opioids. Benzos and opioids can induce respiratory depression, but they're actually quite safe if you know what you're doing.
The point being, Versed/Ativan have limited respiratory effects by themselves, which is probably why the fireman felt comfortable giving just Versed. Narcan (an irreversible opioid antagonist) is given very often empirically on cases of respiratory depression, even by cops in Chicago now. Flumazenil, which reverses the effects of benzos, is rarely used because 1) you generally don'thave any real need to reverse the effect of a benzo and 2) it WILL uncover seizure disorders and concurrently render the best treatment for status epilepticus (IV benzos) useless.
I'm not saying that administering sedatives and then leaving is reasonable or that it meets any standard of care, but there were pharmacologic reasons for his (unforgivable) complacency. That's also part of my wild speculation that the deceased had another underlying medical energency: while benzos have a tough time causing respiratory depression alone, hypoxia and hypercarbia both can.
I don't understand how the ECMO thing could've happened....it's a circuit. I have a hard time believing that the return to the filter was just run into the trash. Bypass and ECMO machines look complex, but fundamentally they're just sone tubes, a reservoir, an oxygenator and a pair of peristaltic pumps.
Regardlessn I doubt it's wise to post info about that event, much less on a public forum.
MaduroBU wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:02 pm
Benzodiazepines sensitize GABA-ergic receptors, but cannot directly activate them. Imagine hosing a lock down with WD40: a key will turn easily, but there must be a key. Ethanol is the most common "key" that people introduce into their bodies, but even that requires a fair amount before it can induce anything resembling the respiratory depression seen with opioids. Benzos and opioids can induce respiratory depression, but they're actually quite safe if you know what you're doing.
The point being, Versed/Ativan have limited respiratory effects by themselves, which is probably why the fireman felt comfortable giving just Versed. Narcan (an irreversible opioid antagonist) is given very often empirically on cases of respiratory depression, even by cops in Chicago now. Flumazenil, which reverses the effects of benzos, is rarely used because 1) you generally don'thave any real need to reverse the effect of a benzo and 2) it WILL uncover seizure disorders and concurrently render the best treatment for status epilepticus (IV benzos) useless.
I'm not saying that administering sedatives and then leaving is reasonable or that it meets any standard of care, but there were pharmacologic reasons for his (unforgivable) complacency. That's also part of my wild speculation that the deceased had another underlying medical energency: while benzos have a tough time causing respiratory depression alone, hypoxia and hypercarbia both can.
I don't understand how the ECMO thing could've happened....it's a circuit. I have a hard time believing that the return to the filter was just run into the trash. Bypass and ECMO machines look complex, but fundamentally they're just sone tubes, a reservoir, an oxygenator and a pair of peristaltic pumps.
Regardlessn I doubt it's wise to post info about that event, much less on a public forum.
MaduroBU wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:02 pm
Benzodiazepines sensitize GABA-ergic receptors, but cannot directly activate them. Imagine hosing a lock down with WD40: a key will turn easily, but there must be a key. Ethanol is the most common "key" that people introduce into their bodies, but even that requires a fair amount before it can induce anything resembling the respiratory depression seen with opioids. Benzos and opioids can induce respiratory depression, but they're actually quite safe if you know what you're doing.
The point being, Versed/Ativan have limited respiratory effects by themselves, which is probably why the fireman felt comfortable giving just Versed. Narcan (an irreversible opioid antagonist) is given very often empirically on cases of respiratory depression, even by cops in Chicago now. Flumazenil, which reverses the effects of benzos, is rarely used because 1) you generally don'thave any real need to reverse the effect of a benzo and 2) it WILL uncover seizure disorders and concurrently render the best treatment for status epilepticus (IV benzos) useless.
I'm not saying that administering sedatives and then leaving is reasonable or that it meets any standard of care, but there were pharmacologic reasons for his (unforgivable) complacency. That's also part of my wild speculation that the deceased had another underlying medical energency: while benzos have a tough time causing respiratory depression alone, hypoxia and hypercarbia both can.
I don't understand how the ECMO thing could've happened....it's a circuit. I have a hard time believing that the return to the filter was just run into the trash. Bypass and ECMO machines look complex, but fundamentally they're just sone tubes, a reservoir, an oxygenator and a pair of peristaltic pumps.
Regardlessn I doubt it's wise to post info about that event, much less on a public forum.
I see that you've posted that link twice now. I'm explaining how versed and the broad class of benzodiazepines work in general, and the hazards associated with their use. Did you have a specific point or question?
The part from your link that you're overlooking (which is completely reasonable - I don't expect laymen to have a working knowledge of pharmacology):
"The majority of serious adverse effects, particularly those associated with oxygenation and ventilation, have been reported when midazolam is administered with other medications capable of depressing the central nervous system. The incidence of such events is higher in patients undergoing procedures involving the airway without the protective effect of an endotracheal tube (eg, upper endoscopy and dental procedures)."
