2 Navy Boats in Iranian Custody

[dale blanker]

Nope, I'm not defending anyone (and what I believe about Hillary or Obama is not relevant here). But I do get tired of seeing quick negative perspectives on things that don't have a complete answer: "Let's find a conspiracy or ulterior motive every chance we get!"

Things like the government sending the boats to Iranian waters to be captured and the crews belittled... give me a break. Some people will believe anything. Of course anyone is free to express an opinion here just as I am free to disagree. I never subscribed to the theory that someone sent those boats to be captured, and I did not say so in my previous posts. What I DID say is that I believe the administration is trying to whitewash Iran's role in the capture of the boats because of the sensitive political nature of the deeply unpopular deal that Obama struck with Iran. If they are demonstrated to be no better than Barbary pirates (very plausible) then it casts Boy Wonder's negotiating bona fides in a very bad light......as in "he is a naive idiot." But that is not a conspiracy theory. Rather, it is just one more positive affirmation in a LONG list of such positive affirmations of Obama's very poor grasp of geopolitics.

I didn't say YOU said the boats were sent into Iranian waters. Someone else did earlier in this thread.

You may be right about the US whitewashing the boat event, but so what? Actually the treatment our sailors received was pretty mild compared to the way people react in that part of the world when someone crosses their boundary or even just says the wrong thing. Those guys are nuts and simple mistakes usually get severe punishments. Let's be realistic. Mike Morell was on Charlie Rose the other night - he thought the Iranian Deal was pretty good. We'll see...

Ending on a positive note..!

[The Annoyed Man]

You may be right about the US whitewashing the boat event, but so what?
....

Ending on a positive note..!

Also trying to end on a positive note, but to your "so what?" question, I have to answer it. I intensely dislike being lied to by my government, whatever the reason......that's what. We've had a century of that kind of crapulence, and the reason they get away with it is because very few people care enough any longer to demand accountability from their government, or to do anything about it when their demand for accountability is not met.

The reason it is important to me specifically in this case is that, so long as the president (any president) does not have to admit that he made a bad deal, then he doesn't have to alter course and try to rectify the wrong.....and he can kick the can down the road to the next president. Why? Because he doesn't love the country enough to do the right thing. Real leaders don't do that.

When my dad was in Marine Corps OCS in 1943, one of the things they told him in a leadership class was that, when you have to mak a decision under fire, any decision is better than no decision. You can recover from a bad decision, but no decision just gets everyone killed. Real leaders don't do what Obama has done with regard to the Iran deal.

When a president refuses to accept responsibility for his past decisions, and refuses to take steps to recover from those bad decisions, he leaves his nation leaderless and pinned down in the middle of the geopolitical "battlefield". It's inexcusable. I want to know WHAT he is going to do to correct the grievous error he made in making the Iran nuclear deal. That's why "so what" isn't an attitude I'm prepared to accept from my gov't. We all deserve better than the shuck and jive we've been getting. All of us, including you, deserve better than that.

[dale blanker]

When my dad was in Marine Corps OCS in 1943, one of the things they told him in a leadership class was that, when you have to mak a decision under fire, any decision is better than no decision. You can recover from a bad decision, but no decision just gets everyone killed. Real leaders don't do what Obama has done with regard to the Iran deal.

Ah, a little off topic but we do have something in common...
I have a brother that joined the Marines in '46 and I joined the Marines in '53. He stayed in 21 years (3 was enough for me) and retired as a captain after going up through the enlisted ranks with many missions during the Korean Conflict and then warrant officer and finally OCS. When I was 16 I enjoyed visiting him at Quantico and driving his car on and off the base and being saluted every time I passed through the gate. Of course the officer tags on the car were being saluted and not me but my driving was making it happen.

[VMI77]

Nope, I'm not defending anyone (and what I believe about Hillary or Obama is not relevant here). But I do get tired of seeing quick negative perspectives on things that don't have a complete answer: "Let's find a conspiracy or ulterior motive every chance we get!"

Things like the government sending the boats to Iranian waters to be captured and the crews belittled... give me a break. Some people will believe anything. Of course anyone is free to express an opinion here just as I am free to disagree.

On Bergdahl: obviously the guy has some mental problems but there may be mitigating circumstances that should be taken into account. We don't know if drugs were involved or lousy judgement or PTSD or just plain stupidity or cowardice or depression or some combination of these. What I believe is that he should be court martialed and it's going to happen. Susan Rice was too quick to say that Bergdahl served with honor and distinction without knowing more but she did clarify somewhat. Big deal. The point is that he is an American, he did enlist, he did serve, and he deserves fair treatment under military law.

Your response is exactly what I thought it would be...deflection and more defense of in the indefensible. Drugs, bad judgement, stupidity, PTSD, and depression are not mitigating circumstances for TREASON. They're not even mitigating circumstances for normal criminality. A courts martial is meaningless in a system where the CIC has already ordered the fix to be in. TAM did a good job of laying out the evidence and I see no reason to repeat it....Bergdahl is a traitor. His actions are responsible for the deaths of his fellow soldiers. In a fair courts martial tried on the facts he would be found guilty and executed for treason. At the minimum he is guilty of desertion in the face of the enemy and should be executed.

What you believe about Hillary and Obama is relevant here. This is a gun forum and both Hillary and Obama have expressed the desire to confiscate guns and their fervent support of other anti-gun measures. Hillary and Obama are also both pathological liars and while Obama may merely be a narcissist, Hillary is that at a minimum, and potentially a psychopath. But their psychological descriptions are matters of speculation so we can dismiss that here....that they desire to confiscate our guns and are both pathological liars is fact with the evidence coming from their own mouths.

So, your estimates of Hillary and Obama are relevant here on two levels: 1) how if reflects on you as a supporter of the 2nd Amendment; and 2) how it reflects on your ability to distinguish truth from lies, and hence, how to weigh your comments in the forum. IOW, if you can't recognize that Obama and Hillary are untrustworthy liars it undermines any faith one might have in your ability to separate fact from fiction when it comes to the politics of gun control.

Edited to add:

After reading your last response to TAM saying you were a Marine I find your defense of a traitor like Bergdahl even more incomprehensible. I can't remember the last time I heard a Marine making excuses for the inexcusable. Your defense of Bergdahl might have some merit if Bergdahl was a draftee, but we have had a volunteer military since the end of the Vietnam war. That he entered the Army of his own free will and then betrayed both his fellow soldiers and his country make his actions all the more despicable.

[The Annoyed Man]

When my dad was in Marine Corps OCS in 1943, one of the things they told him in a leadership class was that, when you have to mak a decision under fire, any decision is better than no decision. You can recover from a bad decision, but no decision just gets everyone killed. Real leaders don't do what Obama has done with regard to the Iran deal.

Ah, a little off topic but we do have something in common...
I have a brother that joined the Marines in '46 and I joined the Marines in '53. He stayed in 21 years (3 was enough for me) and retired as a captain after going up through the enlisted ranks with many missions during the Korean Conflict and then warrant officer and finally OCS. When I was 16 I enjoyed visiting him at Quantico and driving his car on and off the base and being saluted every time I passed through the gate. Of course the officer tags on the car were being saluted and not me but my driving was making it happen.

Had the same experience in the 1960s, driving onto Pendleton to surf at San Onofre Surf Club, where we were members. Dad was a 2nd Lt at Iwo (where he was wounded in Cushman's Pocket), mustered out as a 1st Lt, and made Captain in the reserves for a while. Whenever we'd drive onto the base from the north entrance on PCH, he'd show his old ID card and the guard would snap to attention and salute. My dad had long hair and a beard at the time, and the surf van was full of his hippie sons. I always wondered if that rubbed the gate guards the wrong way, but I also really appreciated that so many years after his war, they still showed him that respect. I never served, but I have had a fond spot in my heart for the USMC ever since.

[philip964]

http://freebeacon.com/national-security ... rs-crying/

Iran publishes pictures of captured US sailor crying.

[parabelum]

A bit more info.

"WASHINGTON—The Obama administration secretly organized an airlift of $400 million worth of cash to Iran that coincided with the January release of four Americans detained in Tehran, according to U.S. and European officials and congressional staff briefed on the operation afterward.

Wooden pallets stacked with euros, Swiss francs and other currencies were flown into Iran on an unmarked cargo plane, according to these officials. The U.S. procured the money from the central banks of the Netherlands and Switzerland, they said."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sent-ca ... 1470181874