Should University Administrators be in the Law Enforcement Business?

[android]

The recent rape incident at Baylor reinforces my belief the educations institutions such as colleges and universities should NOT be in the law enforcement business.

http://deadspin.com/baylor-s-investigat ... 1725434717

So, they're mad at Baylor, but IMO, Baylor had no business doing an investigation at all. Here's my reasoning. Students at a university have no formal relationship other than purchasing a service provided by that school. They are no different than people riding on a city bus. If bus passengers get in a fight, the bus driver CALLS THE POLICE. The police investigate crimes, not BUS drivers. When crimes are committed on a university campus, they POLICE need to be called. REAL City or State DPS police, not university controlled cops that will sweep it under the carpet in order to avoid making the university look bad. And administrators have no business conducting criminal investigations. They are NOT detectives.

Sure, let them write parking tickets and investigate academic infractions such as cheating and plagiarism. That should be the jurisdiction of the university, but they need to get out of the crime business, especially anything to do with sexual harassment and rape.

[psijac]

Deadspin is owned by gawker media. Same as jalopnik, Jezebel, and kotaku. They are at the bottom of the rung when it comes to getting news.

[android]

Deadspin is owned by gawker media. Same as jalopnik, Jezebel, and kotaku. They are at the bottom of the rung when it comes to getting news.

the messenger is irrelevant. This is all over every news source.

Do you think it's OK for university administrators to play detective and enforce laws or not?

[JALLEN]

I've often wondered about this myself, ever since my days at UT ~45 years ago.

Arrests, law enforcement, investigation, rights of an accused, search and seizure, etc. is so intimately a function of sovereignty, it is baffling how this function has been ceded to non government officers. This is especially acute in the case of private schools like Baylor, SMU, etc. but applies with equal force to UT, it seems to me.

Why can't the city patrol etc. a university, maybe with a devoted squad of officers assigned to that beat, like in any large city.

The city doesn't want the expense, but it gets the benefit of those zillions of students spending money, paying taxes, etc. and that would eliminate inevitable jurisdictional quagmires like which side of the street did an incident occur, on campus or in the city.

Is Baylor exempt from property taxes? I would imagine UT is. Maybe we need to normalize that.

[android]

Here is a case where the judge ruled against UC San Diego because they limited cross examination of the witness. Precedent is being set that the right to cross examine your accusers must be followed, especially by a state school.

http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/wp ... 5-7-10.pdf

[ShootDontTalk]

I can only offer an opinion. Universities, no, all schools, are no longer centers for education. They are centers for indoctrination in liberal progressive thought and politics. As such, you need total control of the prisone....uhh...students. When you can throw the weight of law and punishment at young people, who dares stand up for what is right?

[baldeagle]

I'm not sure self interest is the best argument against universities having their own police departments. The government sometimes is interested in covering up crime as well, so their stats look better. I think the better argument is that they're not trained to do law enforcement, but even that is weak. University police departments often hire licensed peace officers who have been through the same training that governmental police have been through. (I don't know if it's a requirement, but it should be for those who conduct investigations and make arrests. Nothing wrong with having rent-a-cops for parking enforcement.) I think the breakdown is in the university handling the judicial process. That should definitely be in the established court system under the normal rules of procedure. University administrators are not trained in the law and their processes don't follow the normal court procedures.

So, I think the better argument is that, while there's nothing inherently wrong with universities having their own police departments, when someone is arrested for a crime, they should go to the city jail and be tried in the city, county or state courts by duly appointed officers of the law. That still won't completely remove self interest, because the local law enforcement infrastructure has a vested interest in keeping the university happy, but at least that way the rights of the accused would be protected and the normal investigatory and trial processes would be involved.

[JALLEN]

I'm sure that self interest, whatever that means, is not an argument at all.

Our culture entrusts law enforcement to government. Private police forces have no power to arrest, etc. Whatever the efficacy and motives of the local government, for better or worse, that's who we trust in these delicate and sometimes controversial matters, whose officers, including especially elected officials, take oaths to support and defend the Constitution, etc.

If there is any distinction between a sworn peace officer and a well trained CHL in terms of being armed, this is it, the assumed fealty to that oath, and his/her superiors.

[OldGrumpy]

There is a law which requires schools to report safety stats on an annual basis. These stats are used to rank schools on safety and schools are very conscious that parents want their "sweet babies" to go to a school that is safe. They cannot get good ratings reporting too much. Now everyone knows that is not a school in America that would hide crime to make their school look safer. Also, never discount the power of athletics on campuses. It funds a lot of other activity and there is pressure to keep athletes eligible

[SewTexas]

I'm wondering....if it's a "state" University, what about DPS? If it's a city college, use city police?

[baldeagle]

I'm sure that self interest, whatever that means, is not an argument at all.

Our culture entrusts law enforcement to government. Private police forces have no power to arrest, etc.

University police departments do have the power to arrest, and their detectives are licensed peace officers. Like many police departments, they also have officers who are not licensed peace officers and do not have arrest powers. UTD's Chief is the former Chief of the Richardson Police Department.

[EEllis]

The problem isn't the "police" because if they are police then they are trained and sworn officers just like any other. It isn't that there is civilian oversight because lets face it that happens everywhere and while there are some private schools with their own police it's the large State schools that we normally hear about. Those are run by public officials so even if indirectly answerable to the public. In my opinion the issue is schools that try and substitute their own quasi judicial apparatus for the real thing. These people who investigate rape accusations aren't part of the university police departments. It's a purely administrative investigation with no connection to any criminal justice system at all. It gives the false impression that it somehow is connected though which causes some victims to stop there instead of following thru with criminal complaints. In addition since it isn't criminal it doesn't have to follow normal legal procedure thus drawing into question any results achieved. And while anyone should be able to "investigate" just about anything, the consequences for young people when these proceedings go wrong is pretty severe.

[EEllis]

I'm sure that self interest, whatever that means, is not an argument at all.

Our culture entrusts law enforcement to government. Private police forces have no power to arrest, etc.

University police departments do have the power to arrest, and their detectives are licensed peace officers. Like many police departments, they also have officers who are not licensed peace officers and do not have arrest powers. UTD's Chief is the former Chief of the Richardson Police Department.

Actually if it is a state school security commissioned by the school are considered peace officers while on duty and can detain and arrest on campus.

[JALLEN]

I'm sure that self interest, whatever that means, is not an argument at all.

Our culture entrusts law enforcement to government. Private police forces have no power to arrest, etc.

University police departments do have the power to arrest, and their detectives are licensed peace officers. Like many police departments, they also have officers who are not licensed peace officers and do not have arrest powers. UTD's Chief is the former Chief of the Richardson Police Department.

What is a "licensed peace officer?" Can they act as peace officers if they are not employed by a government? This seems to be a matter of authority from the government, not of the individual. Example: when I was a lawyer, I could practice law anywhere in that state regardless of any employment, by a prosecutor, law firm, or anyone. The authority was mine, not derived by virtue of being employed by an entity which had authority. A peace officer isn't an independent contractor. The authority is derivative, not individual. He can't just go to work for Walmart and arrest people as a licensed officer.

I am questioning whether university police departments should have the powers of peace officers. Is it a good idea? The UT case is easier than the Baylor or SMU case, I think.

[mojo84]

I think there are statutes that allow private universities to set up actual police departments in Texas. When they do that they have full police powers and are peace officers. I'm pretty sure the cops have to be TCOLE certified or whatever it's called.