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I have a friend that I work with that has started to go to the range with me. He has a 357 revolver but had never shot a gun of any type before he and I went to the range a few weeks ago. As it turns out he LOVES it! He has shot my CZ 9 and we have both shot the 357.

Tomorrow we are headed up north (Houston) so he can buy himself a .45 automatic.

I have found myself in a strange position with my friend. I have shot a lot of long guns over the years but the only pistol training I had was years ago in the Air Force (it was a LOT of years ago, we were still useing 38's). I am doing OK with teaching the open sights and the simple stuff but I fear I am failing to give him all the right training.

Could someone (or several someones) sugest a book on handguns that would be good for my friend?

Thank You

Galveston Redneck

I think live coaching is the best thing, especially for beginners. Having said that, Chris Bird's book has a good chapter on basic handgun marksmanship, and you can find it in some Barnes & Nobles and other large book stores if you don't want to wait for shipping.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 81&t=13362

galvestonredneck wrote:I have a friend that I work with that has started to go to the range with me. He has a 357 revolver but had never shot a gun of any type before he and I went to the range a few weeks ago. As it turns out he LOVES it! He has shot my CZ 9 and we have both shot the 357.

Tomorrow we are headed up north (Houston) so he can buy himself a .45 automatic.

I have found myself in a strange position with my friend. I have shot a lot of long guns over the years but the only pistol training I had was years ago in the Air Force (it was a LOT of years ago, we were still useing 38's). I am doing OK with teaching the open sights and the simple stuff but I fear I am failing to give him all the right training.

Could someone (or several someones) suggest a book on handguns that would be good for my friend?

Thank You

Galveston Redneck

Welcome.

• Complete Book Of Combat Handgunning by Chuck Taylor is worth the money. It isn't perfect as it is a little dated but it is a good start when you don't know where to start.

• Surgical Speed Shooting: How To Achieve High-Speed Marksmanship In A Gunfightby Andy Stanford

• Tactical Pistol Marksmanship: How to Improve Your Combat Shooting Skills by Gabriel Suarez

• Essential Guide to Handguns: Firearm Instruction for Personal Defense and Protection (Paperback)
  by Stephen R. Rementer, Bruce N. Eimer -- marksmanship not combat shooting per se.

• Practical Shooting : Beyond Fundamentals by Brian Enos -- an essential 2nd or 3rd book on handgun skills, Enos is one of the top USPSA/practical pistol shooters and works with some of the others too -- he really thinks about how to improve technique "on the gun".

• From the Amazon reviews, this book looks good, but I don't own it (it's newer and I haven't bought such recently):
  Essential Guide to Handguns: Firearm Instruction for Personal Defense and Protection
  by Stephen R. Rementer, Bruce N. Eimer

• You can also google for the Army and Marine pistol manuals which are on the web and quite good on basics

(Defensive tactics and staying safe are a whole other topic as well.)

I will look forward to seeing what others suggest.

ElGato does one-on-one coaching. I think that's the best route. It's real easy for a beginner to develop a flinch or other bad habits.

U.S. Army Pistol Marksmanship Manual: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2869065/U-S-A ... hip-Guide-

U.S. Marine Pistol Marksmanship Manua:
http://www.pointshooting.com/marine.pdf

These books are purely about the mechanics of shooting, not safety, tactics, or anything else.

- Jim

I will look forward to seeing what others suggest.

Herb M's list is a real good start.

I would add:

Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme"
Lewis Awerbuck's "Tactical Reality"
Jeff Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense"
Brian Felter's "Police Defensive Handgun Use and Encounter Tactics"
Col. Dave Grossman's "On Combat"

Excaliber wrote:

I will look forward to seeing what others suggest.

Herb M's list is a real good start.

I would add:

Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme"
Lewis Awerbuck's "Tactical Reality"
Jeff Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense"
Brian Felter's "Police Defensive Handgun Use and Encounter Tactics"
Col. Dave Grossman's "On Combat"

All good with a caveat: I have On Combat on order and haven't read it yet. I have read On Killing by Grossman and can highly recommend it, so give the quality of this earlier book On Killing, and the strength of the Amazon reviews (and no Excalibur's recommendation) I am certain it is high quality also.

Currently I am reading, Into the Kill Zone : A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force by David Klinger. It's about police deadly force incidents, but there is a wealth of information to be learned here. I cannot recommend it highly enough if you want to think about "What will the threat look like?", "Will I shoot when it is necessary, or wait too long?", and many other critical questions.

I am trying find a really good book on "police patrolling" with an emphasis on non-verbal cues and "noticing the little things" -- not so much on police procedure, but on what to watch, listen for, or notice.

In Gravest Extreme is worth reading, but I have some serious quarrels with it.

Mr. Ayoob advocates the use of deadly force only to prevent murder or serious bodily injury. That policy may be appropriate for certain states; but in light of Texas law and community standards, I think it is dangerous.

If someone is breaking into an occupied residence or vehicle, that criminal is willing to use deadly force against the occupants. He may not have thought it through, but it is implicit in the act. If you allow a criminal past the barrier, the doors and windows of your house or vehicle, his chance of succeeding in a deadly assault, rape, or kidnapping is much greater. The legislature has been very explicit about allowing the use of deadly force to prevent this possibility.

When this book was written (1980), cooperating with armed robbers may have been appropriate. It no longer is. Too many robbers commit violence against cooperating victims. There is a story in today's paper about a robbery where the robbers stole the personal property of all the patrons of a game room in Bacliff, then shot one for no apparent reason: http://www.galvnews.com/story.lasso?ewc ... 67e76f93d7

My other point of disagreement is that Mr. Ayoob recommends carrying "throw-down" money and giving it to potential muggers. This may have been appropriate in the den of thieves that was New York City in the 1970s.

I object to the concept of "street taxes" on principle. I think it encourages aggressive and intimidating behavior. It's like rewarding a dog when it growls at you.

Throw-down money in its own right is useful. It can be a distraction, especially if you "nervously" drop loose bills to that the robber is tempted to bend over and pick them up.

- Jim

I agree about live training/coaching. Reading the "opinions" in books is fine and educational, but I think it's counterproductive if done before live training. You simply cannot learn how to shoot from a book. Once a person has learned the basics of shooting and has spent a good bit of time practicing, then the more advanced concepts presented in many of the recommended books will be meaningful. Plus, some of the advice given in print is great, some not so great, and some works for some people but not for others. You need experience to distinguish the good from the bad.

The importance of hands-on training by someone who knows how to teach cannot be overstressed.

Chas.

Few of us will have the opportunity to train with really world class shooters or world class coaches -- for those of us lucky enough to do that, it probably will not be at our first training nor right at the beginning of our own development.

I will presume that anyone asking for a book is a good reader, and knows something about modeling and self-coachin based on reading. For some people this just isn't a skill they have of course.

A good example is martial arts books. Most people will get little from a "technique book" while others will use the same book to progress markedly.

There are many advantages of books, but one of the biggest is that they are available "now" while most of the really great shooting coaches are booked months ahead or we must wait to fit it into our schedule. It is far preferable to be practicing during those month, the be practicing much more perfectly rather than just practicing the wrong technique, and to be gaining the experience and background that when we finally get help from that world class coach we are at a higher level better able to process and use the subtle points rather than just the gross outline.

Also, there are very few world class teachers -- most of us will attend a lot of training without ever meeting one. World clas is not just "real good", but as rare as the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordans in sports.

I agree that reading can set the mental groundwork for what a coach teaches by example and hands-on instruction.

You don't need a world-class coach to learn basic technique, and that is all that most shooters achieve. I have taught a couple of people who had absolutely no experience to shoot, and they were shooting consistent patterns within one hour.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:ElGato does one-on-one coaching. I think that's the best route. It's real easy for a beginner to develop a flinch or other bad habits. - Jim

I agree that one-on-one coaching by a good-knowledgeable teacher is the best. It's easier to develop good habits than to break bad habits.

Just because someone is a good shooter, doesn't mean that they can teach someone how to shoot. El Gato happens to be good at both! And he lives in Texas City!

HerbM wrote:Few of us will have the opportunity to train with really world class shooters or world class coaches -- for those of us lucky enough to do that, it probably will not be at our first training nor right at the beginning of our own development.

That's true but go back and read the original question by galvestonredneck.

He didn't say his friend had been plinking for years and now he was interested in getting a CHL and competing in IDPA. He didn't say his friend had been shooting for a few months and wanted to know how to take it to the next level. His friend is a rank beginner. Someone who has never shot a handgun before (or shot once or twice) does not need world class instruction to learn the basics. There are many NRA instructors who can set his friend on the right path and help him avoid learning bad habits. There are competent amateurs who can do the same thing for a friend. I think some of the recommended books are good for someone who already knows the basics but might overload and confuse a new shooter.

boomerang wrote:

HerbM wrote:Few of us will have the opportunity to train with really world class shooters or world class coaches -- for those of us lucky enough to do that, it probably will not be at our first training nor right at the beginning of our own development.

That's true but go back and read the original question by galvestonredneck.

He didn't say his friend had been plinking for years and now he was interested in getting a CHL and competing in IDPA. He didn't say his friend had been shooting for a few months and wanted to know how to take it to the next level. His friend is a rank beginner. Someone who has never shot a handgun before (or shot once or twice) does not need world class instruction to learn the basics. There are many NRA instructors who can set his friend on the right path and help him avoid learning bad habits. There are competent amateurs who can do the same thing for a friend. I think some of the recommended books are good for someone who already knows the basics but might overload and confuse a new shooter.

And many books that will be as good or better than the "average" instructor, for those who read and model atheletic performance well -- not everyone can do that, but for those who can, the book is usually at 10 or 100 to 1 economic & skill advantage -- especially since a small amount of training (anything up to a week), is going to be followed by months of careful practice according to the recommendations from these trainers themselves.

They main key no matter how you get the training, it so not be practicing bad habits. Some people can self-analyze (or working in the partner team these two are setting up) IF they have the correct info.

Some can't.

But if a performer cannot self-coach (and doesn't have a coach) those one shot trainings are going to be just a problematic. For someone on the Army team, or in a sport where you can afford and find an ongoing coach this is easily overcome, but most people can neither find nor afford an daily or even weekly shooting coach, unless it is a partner shooter.

Money spend on books is almost never wasted IF you read them. Money and time spent on live training in any field is almost always a poorrer investment and you are typically going to lose a lot more. Especially if you are just dealing with a typical, mediocre trainer.

Most of time you do the book first, THEN you have the knowledge to select an instructor or a particular training that will meet *YOU* at the level you can reach quickly on your own.





Books work as well or better for some people. Depends on the person, but if someone is asking for a book, chances are they are one of those people.

boomerang wrote:

HerbM wrote:Few of us will have the opportunity to train with really world class shooters or world class coaches -- for those of us lucky enough to do that, it probably will not be at our first training nor right at the beginning of our own development.

That's true but go back and read the original question by galvestonredneck.

He didn't say his friend had been plinking for years and now he was interested in getting a CHL and competing in IDPA. He didn't say his friend had been shooting for a few months and wanted to know how to take it to the next level. His friend is a rank beginner. Someone who has never shot a handgun before (or shot once or twice) does not need world class instruction to learn the basics. There are many NRA instructors who can set his friend on the right path and help him avoid learning bad habits. There are competent amateurs who can do the same thing for a friend. I think some of the recommended books are good for someone who already knows the basics but might overload and confuse a new shooter.

And many books that will be as good or better than the "average" instructor, for those who read and model atheletic performance well -- not everyone can do that, but for those who can, the book is usually at 10 or 100 to 1 economic & skill advantage -- especially since a small amount of training (anything up to a week), is going to be followed by months of careful practice according to the recommendations from these trainers themselves.

They main key no matter how you get the training, it so not be practicing bad habits. Some people can self-analyze (or working in the partner team these two are setting up) IF they have the correct info.

Some can't.

But if a performer cannot self-coach (and doesn't have a coach) those one shot trainings are going to be just a problematic. For someone on the Army team, or in a sport where you can afford and find an ongoing coach this is easily overcome, but most people can neither find nor afford an daily or even weekly shooting coach, unless it is a partner shooter.

Books work as well or better for some people. Depends on the person, but if someone is asking for a book, chances are they are one of those people.

Shooting is hardly as complicated as playing the violin or tennis. You can see that you either hit the point of aim or you didn't, and the causes and solutions to various problems are well-documented.

The Army manual is written so that a relatively raw recruit can learn from it. The cost is effectively zero (though I printed a copy and had it bound).

I think a few formal lessons and consistent practice will keep most shooters at a practical level.

It's a small investment for a skill that can save your life and the lives of your loved ones.

- Jim