TexasCHLforum.com

I am hoping to get an answer to this question; hoping it has been previously addressed.

I know we can open carry a long gun (rifle) with no issue.
I know we can conceal carry and open carry handguns (with holster) with no issues.

But, what about a "firearm". By "firearms", am referring to a weapon such as an AR15 that is > 26" with no stock, with a brace and a vertical grip. This does not meet NFA requirements as an AOW or SBR. It does not meet the definition of a pistol nor a rifle. So, can it be carrier like a long gun in Texas, slung over my back?

Thank you,

Bryan

An AR pistol has to be 1) concealed, 2) in a shoulder holster, 3) in a belt holster.

Same guidelines as any “pistol.”

Sorry I can’t answer all of your questions but I have 2 comments
1- you can carry a pistol -open or concealed- with an LTC
I wanted to add the LTC statement as i wanted to be sure that was clear for anyone reading this

2- if the weapon you describe is not defined as a Pistol or a Rifle, I believe it must be an AOW

In the configuration I described, it is not considered a rifle, it is not considered a pistol, it is not regulated by the NFA and therefore not considered a SBR or AOW - because it does not have a stock.

Since it is not a pistol, then it does not need a holster for any open carry. I can only assume since it is not considered a pistol, it could be carried like a long gun.

Thoughts ?

Thank you,

Bryan Roberts

I guess I missed something, but then again I am a C- student. It was my understanding that AR’s with shorter barrels than 16” without a stock is considered a pistol.

Regardless of the law, you really need to consider where you are and what you are doing. Walking around your ranch is a lot different than walking into WalMart.

If you want respect for your rights, be respectful of others and realize they are under stress from Media, Family, Personal Health, and Personal Safety.

My two cents,
Nick

My 2 cents....Don't do it in public. It does nothing to galvanize our rights and it does very little for your self protection. Do you have an LTC? How accurately can you shoot that thing? I can almost guarantee if you carry it in public you will get to have a discussion on your "rights" from a group of friendly LEO's.

The conundrums of definitions game that we play with the ATF does not translate well to Texas Law, most certainly when it comes to the “firearm” definition that you are working with.

As an on duty Security Officer, or a Body Guard in uniform, we do not have the whole “must be carried in a shoulder or belt holster” thing. So, we could legally carry an AR pistol on a sling with a brace on Capitol grounds and the Troopers couldn’t touch us. But we don’t. Because all it takes is one guy who barely passed all of his Academy classes to decide that you are going to jail... and then you are going to jail.

Is it worth that, just to be able to carry whatever funky thing that you think that you want to carry? If what you want to carry is anything short barrel, run, don’t walk away. I have SBRs and SBSs, and I notice a severe decrease in performance when hunting hogs with a 11.5” 5.56. Stick with 16” rifles and 18” shotguns, unless you are in a vehicle, then stick to handguns... real handguns, not AR pistols. It sounds really cool... until you actually train with one.

We are doing vehicle training this weekend with UTM sim rounds to illustrate this for some of our guys. Learning will occur!

Let me give the exact scenario that I faced.

I was in bed, shots rang out beside out house, I picked up the "firearm", flashlight and cell phone. I called the police, reported the gun fire and went outside to talk to the neighbors. I wanted to walk outside with the "firearm" but choose to only go out with my IWB handgun (I have a CHL/LTC). Other neighbors came outside with their rifles, shotguns, etc.

My concern was when law enforcement rolled up to the home and I had the "firearm" slung.

FYI, it was a drive by shooting 2 houses down, 12 shots fired, two homes hit.

Thanks,

Bryan

broberts001 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:23 am Let me give the exact scenario that I faced.

I was in bed, shots rang out beside out house, I picked up the "firearm", flashlight and cell phone. I called the police, reported the gun fire and went outside to talk to the neighbors. I wanted to walk outside with the "firearm" but choose to only go out with my IWB handgun (I have a CHL/LTC). Other neighbors came outside with their rifles, shotguns, etc.

My concern was when law enforcement rolled up to the home and I had the "firearm" slung.

FYI, it was a drive by shooting 2 houses down, 12 shots fired, two homes hit.

Thanks,

Bryan

So long as you stay on your property, you shouldn't have any issues with that. Venturing outside your property though, you could be in for a world of pain/hurt.

broberts001 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:22 amBut, what about a "firearm". By "firearms", am referring to a weapon such as an AR15 that is > 26" with no stock, with a brace and a vertical grip.

I believe you meant to say the length is <26" not greater than. Under state law that makes it a pistol. Under federal law, I believe it also makes it a pistol. By not having a stock it is designed to be fired with one hand, which is the requirement for a pistol.

So, I think you can carry it openly if you have an LTC and it is in a shoulder holster or belt holster.

EDIT TO CORRECT MY MISINTERPRETATION OF THE QUESTION:


My earlier answer was based on a mistake I made that some of the others seem to have gotten correct.

So, I think you can carry it openly if you have an LTC and it is in a shoulder holster or belt holster.[/quote]

When you said a vertical grip, I took it as the pistol grip. Several others have shown ARs with vertical foregrips. A vertical foregrip means it is not designed to be fired by one hand. That removes it from the pistol definition under both federal and state law. The lack of a stock removes it from the federal rifle definition (designed to be fired from the shoulder). But in Texas, the state law does not define rifles. It regulates pistols and leaves everything else alone. Since it is not a pistol, you do not need to have it in a holster and you do not need to have an LTC to carry it.

I agree that you can carry it on a sling over your shoulder or on your back.

I do want to remind you that just because you can doesn't mean you should. I would expect that there are going to be a lot of "man with a gun" calls to the local police and I will not guarantee that every officer is going to be as up to date on the laws as the people in this forum. You may end up on a trip to the local county jail for a visit. I am sure you would win the court case, but the stay will not be pleasant and could be expensive.

broberts001 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:23 am Let me give the exact scenario that I faced.

I was in bed, shots rang out beside out house, I picked up the "firearm", flashlight and cell phone. I called the police, reported the gun fire and went outside to talk to the neighbors. I wanted to walk outside with the "firearm" but choose to only go out with my IWB handgun (I have a CHL/LTC). Other neighbors came outside with their rifles, shotguns, etc.

My concern was when law enforcement rolled up to the home and I had the "firearm" slung.

FYI, it was a drive by shooting 2 houses down, 12 shots fired, two homes hit.

Thanks,

Bryan

This would definitely Cause me to seek other housing. I am glad nobody was hit. As far as law enforcement goes, it seems to me their reaction to firearms when responding to things like shots fired can range all over the place. I would be concerned also.

My understand of AR pistol vs rifle was that the receiver had to have been designated as a "pistol" when manufactured, otherwise if the barrel/overall length falls below ATF rifle rules it is subject to being classified as a short barreled rifle and requires a stamp.

Turns out...there is an "other"....

I'm guessing its something like this:
https://franklinarmory.com/products/com ... xo-series/

Grayling813 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:47 am My understand of AR pistol vs rifle was that the receiver had to have been designated as a "pistol" when manufactured, otherwise if the barrel/overall length falls below ATF rifle rules it is subject to being classified as a short barreled rifle and requires a stamp.

Turns out...there is an "other"....

I'm guessing its something like this:
https://franklinarmory.com/products/com ... xo-series/

^^^ Correct, Franklin was the first to use this concept of "firearm" for sales of an AR15 weapon. overall length > 26", no stock but with a forward vertical grip. This does not make it a pistol, rifle or NFA weapons - which leaves it in the general category of firearm.

You need a rifle, get and AK/AR
You need a pistol, get what makes you happy as long it is reliable