Effective objecting

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dsiminiuk
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Effective objecting

#1

Post by dsiminiuk »

I'm of the opinion that the open carry legislation introduced in Texas has hurt the concealed carry crowd significantly because of the media attention that it garnered. Establishments objecting to open carry found out they can put up a sign and keep open carry patrons out, and the side effect that they can also put up a 30.07 and 30.06 to keep concealed carry out too. I have to think that the attention to the ability to keep one out has opened the floodgates on keeping out all.

I've already pulled out of a credit union and will no longer patronize places that post 30.06 signs where I have done business before.

I saw the recent post that The Cheesecake Factory in Frisco posted a 30.06 and 30.07 and wanted to let them know my thoughts and so I looked for some boilerplate complaint content about this, how to effectively make the point but I didn't find anything. I came up with the following and let them know about it with the following text entered into their contact us page:

"By posting a 30.06 sign at this location you have alienated me and 1.2 million other Texans who will not patronize your establishment because we know what you apparently don't; that criminals don't give a crap about signs. This location and any others like it are now too dangerous to enter."

I would appreciate constructive criticism of this content with the purpose of improving it or links to other content for use in this way.

Thanks

thetexan
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Re: Effective objecting

#2

Post by thetexan »

This IS an important discussion.

So important that this forum has already engaged in it voluminously.

I recommend you search on this subject and you will find hours and hours of reading.

tex
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mojo84
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Re: Effective objecting

#3

Post by mojo84 »

I would keep comments factual and avoid hyperbole. I know quite a few LTC holders that do not adhere to such a position. I suspect there are many that do not. I also know quite a few that do not frequent The Cheesecake Factory.
By posting a 30.06 sign at this location you have alienated me and 1.2 million other Texans who will not patronize your establishment
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ScottDLS
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Re: Effective objecting

#4

Post by ScottDLS »

I think that Cheesecake Factory has been posting on and off since 30.06 came around. It wasn't just since recent changes, but they don't seem to have been very consistent. I've been to the one in Frisco when it was posted and when it was not. I guess it is again now. I wonder if the one in Southlake is posted now. I usually go to that one.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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LucasMcCain
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Re: Effective objecting

#5

Post by LucasMcCain »

I know the one in south Arlington used to have a 51% sign, despite the fact that there is no way they get that much of their income from booze. They don't have any signs as of a couple months ago.
I prefer dangerous freedom to safety in chains.

Let's go Brandon.

Soccerdad1995
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Re: Effective objecting

#6

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

I was just recently unpleasantly surprised that the Daily Grill in the Houston Galleria is posted with both signs. Full disclosure, the signs are on the side walls as you walk in. I'm not debating their validity here. I used the "contact us" to share my experience of having planned to have lunch there with my wife, and then deciding to eat elsewhere due to the signs. I also mentioned that their location inside of a mall increased the likelihood of violence / need to be prepared for self defense.

I agree with others that you should avoid hyperbole, and also recommend that you personalize it a bit with your actual story, preference to spend money there, and your decision to go to their competitors due to their signage. The less it feels like a form letter, the better.

Ultimately, businesses are usually run by business people who are focused on profits above most everything else. Appeal to their sense of greed instead of trying to convince them of the merits of the second amendment. If they are willing to lose money due to a passionate hatred of the RKBA, then they are a lost cause regardless.

From the business owners' perspective, they need to balance not scaring the gun fearing folks while not offending the gun carrying folks. Personally, I think the approach that Buffalo Wild Wings has taken is interesting. They post an obviously non-compliant sign to placate uninformed gun haters, while doing nothing to deter LTC holders who want to CC. I respect their situation by not OC'ing there even though it would be legal.
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WildBill
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Re: Effective objecting

#7

Post by WildBill »

dsiminiuk wrote:I'm of the opinion that the open carry legislation introduced in Texas has hurt the concealed carry crowd significantly because of the media attention that it garnered. Establishments objecting to open carry found out they can put up a sign and keep open carry patrons out, and the side effect that they can also put up a 30.07 and 30.06 to keep concealed carry out too. I have to think that the attention to the ability to keep one out has opened the floodgates on keeping out all.

I've already pulled out of a credit union and will no longer patronize places that post 30.06 signs where I have done business before.

I saw the recent post that The Cheesecake Factory in Frisco posted a 30.06 and 30.07 and wanted to let them know my thoughts and so I looked for some boilerplate complaint content about this, how to effectively make the point but I didn't find anything. I came up with the following and let them know about it with the following text entered into their contact us page:

"By posting a 30.06 sign at this location you have alienated me and 1.2 million other Texans who will not patronize your establishment because we know what you apparently don't; that criminals don't give a crap about signs. This location and any others like it are now too dangerous to enter."

I would appreciate constructive criticism of this content with the purpose of improving it or links to other content for use in this way.

Thanks
I wouldn't use the word "crap" in any type of formal written communication. :tiphat:
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LucasMcCain
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Re: Effective objecting

#8

Post by LucasMcCain »

The Taco Cabana near me has a little sign on the door just politely asking that their patrons not carry openly. No 30.07 or other signage, so there is no legal effect for missing it. Though I open carry much of the time now, I have no problem with this approach.

There are several people who have been successful getting signs removed. Search these forums and you should be able to find several letters that are well written and have been used successfully. I agree that adding some personal details is a good idea as well. Above all, though, be sure to be as respectful and professional in your tone as possible. We really need to influence the public to view us as the decent level-headed ones and the Anti 2A crowd as the rabid nut jobs. Also, thanks for taking the time to try to make a difference.
I prefer dangerous freedom to safety in chains.

Let's go Brandon.
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Daddio-on-patio
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Re: Effective objecting

#9

Post by Daddio-on-patio »

The following was an experience I related in another thread:

Miguelitos,
I was notified by an acquaintance that Miguelitos has now posted signage disallowing persons with a license to carry a firearm legal entrance. As an LTC holder I will respect your signage, however, I will no longer patronize the restaurant. Too bad since I always enjoyed looking at the bottom of my plate when I finished eating.>
> Just a couple of things regarding Texas LTC holders and what has to be established prior to obtaining an LTC: We have never been convicted of a felony, a crime of violence or domestic abuse. We are not addicted to or have we been found to use illegal drugs. We are not under indictment or are we fugitives from justice. We pass both State and Federal background checks as well as a firing range test.>
> Just curious what you know about your other customers?>
> Thank you,
> Greg

Good Morning Greg,
First let me apologize if you are offended. I totally understand your point. I have forwarded your email to our owner. I will follow up after I hear from her.
Kindest Regards, Sarah

Sarah,
No offense taken. Thank you for responding. If the owner is concerned with folks open carrying I, personally, can understand. Without assuming I am speaking for all licensees, many LTC folks understand that a 30.07 sign on an establishment is a dress code similar to "No shirt, no shoes, no service. " When it is combined with a 30.06 sign it is perceived as an attack against the 2nd ammendment and the entirety of Constitutional rights that all law abiding USA citizens are privileged with. If the signage is removed I will gladly enjoy another meal and notify https://www.texas3006.com of the change.

Greg,
After extensive research and reaching out to a TABC friend, we have made the change for the 30.06. The signs have come down and the 30.07 in the front of the restaurant will be moved to a more visible location.
Thank you,
Sarah

Sarah,
Excellent. Thank you for following up and the removal of the 30.06 signs. I will be by later in the week for lunch!
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12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
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joe817
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Re: Effective objecting

#10

Post by joe817 »

VICTORY!! Well done Greg! :clapping: :thumbs2: :thumbs2:
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Daddio-on-patio
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Re: Effective objecting

#11

Post by Daddio-on-patio »

I did go by and have lunch with my brother-in-law. They still have the 30.07 and it is hard to see. Texas3006 has updated them as 30.07 only. I very much appreciate them being receptive to their customers cuoncerns. I give them credit for making the change.
Ephesians 6:12 NKJV

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

sherlock7
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Re: Effective objecting

#12

Post by sherlock7 »

Daddio-on-patio,

Greg very good letter which got great results! We need to see more of this when we run across a 30.06 sign.

Well Done!

USMC

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aero10
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Re: Effective objecting

#13

Post by aero10 »

LucasMcCain wrote:The Taco Cabana near me has a little sign on the door just politely asking that their patrons not carry openly. No 30.07 or other signage, so there is no legal effect for missing it. Though I open carry much of the time now, I have no problem with this approach.
I've seen similar signs a Pollo Tropical. Honestly, if I owned a business, I'd probably post a similar sign, but then again I'm not a huge OC fan in the first place.
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Effective objecting

#14

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

aero10 wrote:
LucasMcCain wrote:The Taco Cabana near me has a little sign on the door just politely asking that their patrons not carry openly. No 30.07 or other signage, so there is no legal effect for missing it. Though I open carry much of the time now, I have no problem with this approach.
I've seen similar signs a Pollo Tropical. Honestly, if I owned a business, I'd probably post a similar sign, but then again I'm not a huge OC fan in the first place.
I am a fan of OC, although I am most often "loosely CC" meaning that I will untuck my shirt but won't really care if it doesn't completely conceal the bottom of my OWB holster or if I print a bunch (unless there is a 30.07 sign, of course). That said, if I ran a business, and I thought I was losing a significant amount of revenue because of OC, I would post a non-compliant 30.07 type sign, and instruct my employees to politely ask anyone OC'ing to cover their weapon. I would also have them do the same thing for someone who was dressed in an inappropriate manner. Maybe have a cute sign saying something like "Please cover your buns, and your guns".

There is no way I would ever post a valid 30.06 sign. If it came to that, I would just post something that looked close enough to placate the MDA crowd while subtly letting LTC holders know that they were OK to carry.
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