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If you don't have a permit must you still notify an officer that you are carrying in the car? I know it's best to do it no matter what but is it the law?

Soap wrote:If you don't have a permit must you still notify an officer that you are carrying in the car? I know it's best to do it no matter what but is it the law?

Notification is only required when carrying under the authority of a CHL/LTC.

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.17(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1999.
Amended by:
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1146 (H.B. 2730), Sec. 12A.02, eff. September 1, 2009.

As posted above, notification is only required if carrying under the authority of your LTC.

That said, without having an LTC, I wouldn't say anything about a firearm in the vehicle unless I was specifically asked.

If they want to know, they'll ask.

I was told in my class that you should hand both your DL and LTC permit in Texas and keep your hands on the steering wheel. In other states it may be different. OH I plan on putting my DL and LTC permit in a neck lanyard holder so I can hand it out with out reaching for my pocket.

cbunt1 wrote:As posted above, notification is only required if carrying under the authority of your LTC.

That said, without having an LTC, I wouldn't say anything about a firearm in the vehicle unless I was specifically asked.

If they want to know, they'll ask.

Very technically notice is required if you HAVE a LTC and you are CARRYING, even if not under the authority of it.

SteveD4600 wrote:I was told in my class that you should hand both your DL and LTC permit in Texas and keep your hands on the steering wheel. In other states it may be different. OH I plan on putting my DL and LTC permit in a neck lanyard holder so I can hand it out with out reaching for my pocket.

You were told correctly for an LTC holder. However, this topic is about someone without an LTC carrying in their car. Under that scenario, notification is not required.

Unless asked, I also don't believe notification beyond providing the LTC when asked for ID is required if you are carrying. However, common courtesy may be a reason one chooses to give further notification.

mojo84 wrote:

SteveD4600 wrote:I was told in my class that you should hand both your DL and LTC permit in Texas and keep your hands on the steering wheel. In other states it may be different. OH I plan on putting my DL and LTC permit in a neck lanyard holder so I can hand it out with out reaching for my pocket.

You were told correctly for an LTC holder. However, this topic is about someone without an LTC carrying in their car. Under that scenario, notification is not required.

Unless asked, I also don't believe notification beyond providing the LTC when asked for ID is required if you are carrying. However, common courtesy may be a reason one chooses to give further notification.

Yes. Good point. Original question was...do you have to notify that you are carrying (eg. under MPA) if you don't have LTC? The answer is NO. And if you are carrying illegally you don't have to notify either (fifth amendment ).

And to really split hairs, you don't have to "notify" if you are carrying and DO have a LTC. You must, however, present your ID and LTC if ID is demanded by a Peace Officer or Magistrate.

Under MPA if the officer asks if you have a gun you will have to tell the officer. Lying to an officer could get you charged with a class B under section 37.08

Since the legislature removed the penalty for not notifying, the whole issue is moot. Do as you want.

bkj wrote:Under MPA if the officer asks if you have a gun you will have to tell the officer. Lying to an officer could get you charged with a class B under section 37.08

No you can remain silent.

37.08 is iffy given all the requirements. You would probably beat the rap but not the ride.

bkj wrote:Under MPA if the officer asks if you have a gun you will have to tell the officer. Lying to an officer could get you charged with a class B under section 37.08

Section 37.08: "he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation"
Does a traffic stop constitute a criminal investigation? Does the right against self-incrimination not apply? If one were to decline to answer the question, its not like the officer has probable cause to search your vehicle.

[quote="casp625"If one were to decline to answer the question, its not like the officer has probable cause to search your vehicle.[/quote]Well, that depends on the circumstances. You may be wholly innocent , and the cop could still have probable cause. You can't necessarily know that when the cop questions you.

When I was in high school, a friend and I were out in the friend's car. A cop pulled us over and made us get out and assume the position. We had done nothing, but two guys who resembled us and who were driving the same model car had skipped a restaurant ticket. We got it straightened out, but the cop had probable cause.

KLB wrote:When I was in high school, a friend and I were out in the friend's car. A cop pulled us over and made us get out and assume the position. We had done nothing, but two guys who resembled us and who were driving the same model car had skipped a restaurant ticket. We got it straightened out, but the cop had probable cause.

Probable cause to stop the vehicle absent any violation. Not probable cause to search the vehicle.

casp625 wrote:

bkj wrote:Under MPA if the officer asks if you have a gun you will have to tell the officer. Lying to an officer could get you charged with a class B under section 37.08

Section 37.08: "he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation"
Does a traffic stop constitute a criminal investigation? Does the right against self-incrimination not apply? If one were to decline to answer the question, its not like the officer has probable cause to search your vehicle.

Yes, a traffic stop is a criminal investigation. Traffic offenses are all class C misdemeanors (or higher) in Texas, so the stop is a criminal investigation. And yes, your rights against self-incrimination always apply.

Interestingly enough, according to one Court of Criminal Appeals decision, any traffic stop is an arrest. This means they need probable cause plus legal authority to arrest to make the stop (the authority to make an arrest was the point being decided in the case). But to try to protect the citizen's, they specifically said it did not rise to the level of a custodial arrest making the car subject to a search incident to arrest. I am thinking but not sure if they mentioned it, but it would also not trigger a Miranda warning. You can still refuse to answer but they don't have to tell you that.

IMO, the reason 37.08 does not apply is because the crime being investigated is the traffic offense. My carrying a weapon is not material to that investigation. For the question to be material, the officer would have to be able to cite a crime he had at least suspicion of having happened where your having a gun was pertinent to the crime. But I agree with the others, that you would probably end up taking the ride, even if wrongly.

Solaris wrote:

KLB wrote:When I was in high school, a friend and I were out in the friend's car. A cop pulled us over and made us get out and assume the position. We had done nothing, but two guys who resembled us and who were driving the same model car had skipped a restaurant ticket. We got it straightened out, but the cop had probable cause.

Probable cause to stop the vehicle absent any violation. Not probable cause to search the vehicle.

Police don't need probable cause to stop a vehicle; they need reasonable suspicion which is a much lower standard.