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The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

I highly doubt they are a valid 51% location, so the lack of a valid 51% sign is not an issue, IMHO.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

I highly doubt they are a valid 51% location, so the lack of a valid 51% sign is not an issue, IMHO.

I think he means a 30.06 sign that looks similar to a 51% sign, which would make it invalid. I could be reading it wrong though.

I suspect that the sign he saw says "It is unlawful for a person to carry a weapon on this premise, unless the weapon is a handgun and the person is licensed under Subchapter H, Ch. 411, Government Code".

If that's the case, there was a time just after January 1 until about a week ago, that this wording was on the TABC site under their link for the TABC "Blue" sign - it's been changed back now to the familiar "The unlicensed possession..." sign.

Also on their site, the wording on the TABC "Red" sign has been changed from the familiar "The licensed or unlicensed possession..." sign.

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

If a sign is incorrect, and you tell someone about it, what are the logical outcomes?

1) They fix the sign. Congratulations, carry is now banned there. Is this really what you intended to happen?
2) They don't fix the sign. Nothing changes, except you don't get to show off your knowledge of Texas firearms law to the proprietor.

Notice that neither of those is a positive outcome.

If you see an invalid sign, don't bother to correct them, you're not doing us a favor.

CleverNickname wrote:

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

If a sign is incorrect, and you tell someone about it, what are the logical outcomes?

1) They fix the sign. Congratulations, carry is now banned there. Is this really what you intended to happen?
2) They don't fix the sign. Nothing changes, except you don't get to show off your knowledge of Texas firearms law to the proprietor.

Notice that neither of those is a positive outcome.

If you see an invalid sign, don't bother to correct them, you're not doing us a favor.

This. Why in the world would you tell a business that their sign is invalid?

Scott Farkus wrote:

CleverNickname wrote:

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

If a sign is incorrect, and you tell someone about it, what are the logical outcomes?

1) They fix the sign. Congratulations, carry is now banned there. Is this really what you intended to happen?
2) They don't fix the sign. Nothing changes, except you don't get to show off your knowledge of Texas firearms law to the proprietor.

Notice that neither of those is a positive outcome.

If you see an invalid sign, don't bother to correct them, you're not doing us a favor.

This. Why in the world would you tell a business that their sign is invalid?

You tell them....so they can make an 'informed' and lawfully binding decision which route to take, as is their prerogative.

What doesn't do us any 'favors' is flying under the radar because we can (for the time being). We need to be honest and respectful in our dealings with businesses. Omission, doesn't meet that standard...IMO.

This whole sign posting thing....NEEDS to reach a head and then we can deal with whatever has been fleshed out.

Scott Farkus wrote:

CleverNickname wrote:

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

If a sign is incorrect, and you tell someone about it, what are the logical outcomes?

1) They fix the sign. Congratulations, carry is now banned there. Is this really what you intended to happen?
2) They don't fix the sign. Nothing changes, except you don't get to show off your knowledge of Texas firearms law to the proprietor.

Notice that neither of those is a positive outcome.

If you see an invalid sign, don't bother to correct them, you're not doing us a favor.

This. Why in the world would you tell a business that their sign is invalid?

flintknapper wrote:

Scott Farkus wrote:

CleverNickname wrote:

tommyg wrote:The Fiesta mart at 135 & 38th st is not properly marked they have a valid 3007 sign and
a red sign similar to a 51% sign. The 51% sign is not properly worded. I told the manager about it

If a sign is incorrect, and you tell someone about it, what are the logical outcomes?

1) They fix the sign. Congratulations, carry is now banned there. Is this really what you intended to happen?
2) They don't fix the sign. Nothing changes, except you don't get to show off your knowledge of Texas firearms law to the proprietor.

Notice that neither of those is a positive outcome.

If you see an invalid sign, don't bother to correct them, you're not doing us a favor.

This. Why in the world would you tell a business that their sign is invalid?

You tell them....so they can make an 'informed' and lawfully binding decision which route to take, as is their prerogative.

What doesn't do us any 'favors' is flying under the radar because we can (for the time being). We need to be honest and respectful in our dealings with businesses. Omission, doesn't meet that standard...IMO.

This whole sign posting thing....NEEDS to reach a head and then we can deal with whatever has been fleshed out.

Well, what if someone hasn't posted any sort of sign? Sure, they might be pro-gun, or they might not care, but have you considered that they might not know about the 30.06 or 30.07 laws at all? Following your logic, if you don't see any sort of sign posted somewhere, you should inform the proprietor of the 30.06 and 30.07 laws, so that they can make an "informed and lawfully binding decision which route to take."

Well, what if someone hasn't posted any sort of sign? Sure, they might be pro-gun, or they might not care, but have you considered that they might not know about the 30.06 or 30.07 laws at all?

I have considered that very thing, and others. In fact, that IS the case in some situations (might not know about the signs). Other times it might be the result of not caring or actually being pro-gun. We don't know (or care) the reasons a business DOESN'T post, unless you receive 'effective notice' upon entering. That is not the subject of this thread (Improper Signage).

Following your logic, if you don't see any sort of sign posted somewhere, you should inform the proprietor of the 30.06 and 30.07 laws, so that they can make an "informed and lawfully binding decision which route to take."

Please Sir, that is quite a stretch from what I wrote. In no way am I advocating we go around and 'promote' putting up signs where NONE exist. Nor have I suggested we take any 'polls' or visit every business and evangelize Open or Concealed Carry.

But I do believe in being above the board and honest in all dealings, not just taking advantage of what suits me, that is the "logic" and principle involved.

I also think that NOW is the time to address any issues or concerns that businesses have and IF we have an opportunity to do so (in a respectful manner) that it will bode well for us. Discourse is the solution. Not 'hiding' from it, whether CC or OC.

CleverNickname wrote: If a sign is incorrect, and you tell someone about it, what are the logical outcomes?

1) They fix the sign. Congratulations, carry is now banned there. Is this really what you intended to happen?

Since that is obviously the store owners intended to happen, most ltc folks will avoid it anyway. Telling him gives you an opportunity to have an informed conversation about it with him and try to sway him to our side. The other option is that someone from a group that will not be named (or some hard head) will carry in there and when the owner ends up calling the police, they will base their defense on an improper sign. They will not get arrested, the owner will get an education and likely have the correct sign posted immediately after. He will have gotten a bad taste in his mouth from the incident and any polite, logical conversation about the sign or open or concealed carry will fall on deaf ears.