TexasCHLforum.com

I'm assuming most of you are familiar with the incident in Austin several weeks back where a road rage incident led to one driver leaving his vehicle with a bat and approached the other driver in his truck. The other guy got out and reached into the back of his truck and pulled out a stick of some kind. It turned into a wannabe light Saber duel. Had the guy in the front vehicle been carrying, what would he have been allowed to do... legally?

What would you have done...Legally?

Since both drivers stopped and when approached, the second driver produced a stick apparently to re-enact the river crossing scene in Robin Hood. That would be considered mutual combat.

So what I'm saying is, based on the given scenario I would not have stopped unless caught at a light, or traffic that I was unable to maneuver around, I would not exit my vehicle, and then if approached by someone threatening me with a club (which if used as such would define the baseball bat) I would produce my handgun. If he continued the attack, I would then do whatever was necessary to stop him, which may mean a double tap to the center mass.

What Jusme said.

Solsand wrote:I'm assuming most of you are familiar with the incident in Austin several weeks back where a road rage incident led to one driver leaving his vehicle with a bat and approached the other driver in his truck. The other guy got out and reached into the back of his truck and pulled out a stick of some kind. It turned into a wannabe light Saber duel. Had the guy in the front vehicle been carrying, what would he have been allowed to do... legally?

What would you have done...Legally?

The Apocalypse Now! quote "Don't get out of the boat, Never get out of the boat!", is so relevant to driving your car too. So I would not have gotten out of my car and driven off while they guy stayed behind and played with his stick.

Jusme wrote:Since both drivers stopped and when approached, the second driver produced a stick apparently to re-enact the river crossing scene in Robin Hood. That would be considered mutual combat.

So what I'm saying is, based on the given scenario I would not have stopped unless caught at a light, or traffic that I was unable to maneuver around, I would not exit my vehicle, and then if approached by someone threatening me with a club (which if used as such would define the baseball bat) I would produce my handgun. If he continued the attack, I would then do whatever was necessary to stop him, which may mean a double tap to the center mass.

Nailed It!

Jusme wrote:Since both drivers stopped and when approached, the second driver produced a stick apparently to re-enact the river crossing scene in Robin Hood. That would be considered mutual combat.

So what I'm saying is, based on the given scenario I would not have stopped unless caught at a light, or traffic that I was unable to maneuver around, I would not exit my vehicle, and then if approached by someone threatening me with a club (which if used as such would define the baseball bat) I would produce my handgun. If he continued the attack, I would then do whatever was necessary to stop him, which may mean a double tap to the center mass.

and this reinforces my personal thoughts. One of the guys at my local cigar shop is Houston police detective and said that, had the driver who was being approved been "packing" , he would definitely be within his legal rights to draw and fire. This sounds a little harsh but like he said "I'm not going to let some guy with a bat get a jump on me." Might thoughts were, stay in the vehicle as long as possible, but I'm not going to let him walk up and start breaking glass before I draw my weapon. Not sure if I would absolutely have to shoot him...

??

I know we don't have all of the fine details of the encounter. It depends on who the aggressor is. The video makes it seem like the man with the bat is the aggressor, so that's what I'll assume for the purposes of this thought experiment.

Had the man with the bat approach the man from the truck without any provocation and with a bat in hand, the truck man could have reasonably feared for life and limb. You can do a lot of damage with a bat. I think the truck man could have legally defended himself with a firearm. However, I think it was a bad tactical call to exit the vehicle. He left relative safety - you can't do as much damage with a bad when you're trying to swing it into the driver's window. Had it happened that way and gone to trial, the prosecution may have dwelled on the question of why he exited his truck to confront the attacker.

Here's what I would like to think that I would have done: Stay in the vehicle, see man with bat approach my vehicle. Unholster my weapon and keep it at the low ready, ensuring my doors are locked. Call 911 as fast as practical (if possible) if the man is at my window but not yet hitting my vehicle. Cops might not get there fast enough to prevent something, but it would do one of two things. One: It starts my justification defense by way of 911 call center recording everything that's going on now. Two: I tell the guy that I have 911 on the phone and to leave me alone. If he starts bashing in my window, I would take it as an imminent threat to my life and would act accordingly. As soon as I have the opportunity, I put the pedal to the metal and drive a safe distance away - hopefully before any physical force occurs on either side - hopefully I have this opportunity before the window bashing starts.

By myself, I'm probably ok to stay in the car, draw my gun and call 911. If I have the fam in the car with me, I think I would take more proactive action. This assumes that I'm stuck and cannot drive off, which is definitely the best course to take if possible.

Not sure how many of you have seen the series, but First Defender had an episode about a road rage shooting. After seeing the episode I have started thinking consciously as to how I would handle a road-way incident.

Though if I remember in the scenario, they approached from the front, so it is slightly different, the same idea applies. Stay in the vehicle, use it as cover as best possible. Give verbal warning. If that doesn't work, then ready your weapon, draw and point it when appropriate. Use if that doesn't detour the aggressor.

However, I think it was a bad tactical call to exit the vehicle. He left relative safety - you can't do as much damage with a bad when you're trying to swing it into the driver's window. Had it happened that way and gone to trial, the prosecution may have dwelled on the question of why he exited his truck to confront the attacker.

^^^^^^ The decision to remain in the vehicle or exit should be situation specific. IF you can not immediately drive away, then you must quickly assess your risks. Most of these incidents are bluffs/threats, but some are not. You don't want to react too quickly but neither can you afford to get behind in the time curve.

Lots of things to consider here:

Are you the only occupant in the vehicle or do you have family/passengers with you?

Are you physically able to exit the vehicle and use it as a barrier to maintain distance?

Would remaining in the vehicle put you in a more vulnerable position for attack?

Would exiting the vehicle expose you to attack by an aggressor or other actors?

Could you first use your vehicle as a weapon against a deadly threat?

What weapon or threat is immediately recognizable? (If the aggressor has a firearm, you might well find yourself a sitting duck in a vehicle). Alternately, the vehicle might provide you (and any passengers) some form of protection, just depends on the circumstance.



It is well to consider these things BEFORE it happens to you. Also to train yourself to access your weapon and fire from a vehicle. It is quite different than standing on both your 'hind feet' at the range.

If you've never shot through a windshield before (most have not) it affects trajectory, its loud, glass flies both directions. The windshield will remain intact (save for the holes and spider webbing you are producing) whereas a side window will shatter (tempered glass that is not laminated).

Just saying....there isn't always a concrete answer where we can say....if the attacker does 'A' ...you do 'B' ....and it will all be O.K.

It always depends on the situation. Sometimes exiting the vehicle is a better or the best option because if you are unable to drive away, you also don't want to be trapped or confined to the vehicle making yourself a sitting duck.

C-dub wrote:It always depends on the situation. Sometimes exiting the vehicle is a better or the best option because if you are unable to drive away, you also don't want to be trapped or confined to the vehicle making yourself a sitting duck.

If he walks up to my vehicle with a bat I'm already going to be aiming down sights at him. If he continues to approach or uses the weapon, pew pew pew.

Words can't express how glad I am that we don't live in one of these hell-holes that generate road rage and the other forms of antisocial behavior that are constantly posted herein.

Stay in your vehicle. Pistol low and ready, call 911, take aim if necessary and get away if you can. Stepping out puts you in more danger.

I had a road rage guy leave his pickup, reach in the bed and pulled out a big double headed ax.

Came at me, and my 4yr old - we were stuck in traffic on Westheimer right in the Galleria area. Being right handed, I stepped out of the car, staying behind the door.

A few seconds later after looking down the barrel of my Colt Commander he broke off the threat. There must have been 50 witnesses.
He stopped just in time.