How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

[Solsand]

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

[Jusme]

Great question as I'm sure this is a potentially real situation one could find themselves in. As far as holding the person at gun point after he stops the attack, I would say no. Get license plate info, description, have police take photos of any injuries, But if he chooses to walk away you would not be justified in using force, deadly or otherwise to keep him there.

[atx2a]

Threat of deadly force is justified anywhere actual use of deadly force would be. If you are in fear of losing life or seriously bodily injury, you'd be justified.

But make DARN sure the road rage incident has nothing to do with you being at fault for something you did on the road. If there are witnesses that say you provoked it, you're hosed.

[atx2a]

I should clarify: you are justified in using the threat of force to protect yourself, but IANAL and not sure on "holding" him. Better to let him go and give a good description and LP to police.

[Lena]

I had an incident the 1st day I got my chl and was in the 1st class given in Tarrant Co way back when, we were going hunting coyotes that night after work, 2 of us with chl Colt Gen Officers 45's, in a pickup, we had to stop at a red light behind another vehicle and another pulled right behind us just before dark, they exited from the front and rear vehicles coming on both sides to the pickup, they were met with 2 45's in their faces, they screamed they got guns and ran back to their cars and dove in the windows, pulled on the curb and ran the red light we pulled in a parking lot and called the PD with 1 lic # only officer came out to speak with us and said we did perfect and no problems at all and glad we were ok. I would do the same again if needed. I have been involved in 2 other situations since then, and consider myself lucky.

[WildBill]

CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

TITLE 1. CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

CHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT

Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is
one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

[atx2a]

CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

TITLE 1. CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

CHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT

Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is
one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

Thanks WildBill...I thought that was the case, but wanted to err on the side of caution.

[pt145ss]

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.


Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

[Jusme]

CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

TITLE 1. CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

CHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT

Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is
one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

I agree there is statutory law " allowing" one to make an arrest, however, if the person leaves/flees etc.. the OP would not be justified in using deadly force. While the law may allow you to affect an arrest, with the given scenario, I would err on the side of caution and allow the attacker to leave. It gets real sticky between citizen's arrest and unlawful detention/restraint.

[TexasCajun]

In the given situation, your trouble (or lack thereof) will depend on your ability to describe what happened to responding officers. You may also help yourself by thinking through the narrative & look for ways to diffuse the situation before it comes to blows or weapons.

When someone approaches you in such a situation, don't let them get close. Keep your car or anything else between you if you can. If you can't, use your voice to try to keep him from coming within at least a stable strike position.

If it comes to blows and you haven't drawn your gun, it's probably best to either fend of the attack & retreat to a more defensible position or forget about drawing your gun at all. Going for your gun in close quarters runs a high risk of having your gun taken away from you unless you have specific training.

When it's all said & done, don't try to detain the other guy. You're not LEO & would actually run the risk of unlawful detainment or even kidnapping. Get on the phone to 911 & give as complete a description as you can. Then holster & wait.

[Javier730]

I would suggest not stepping out of your vehicle at all. Roll up your windows, have your firearm low and ready if you believe you might need it and try to get away safely when you get a chance. I see no reason to step out.

The only reason one would step out is to have a verbal or physical altercation with the other guy.

[WildBill]

CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

TITLE 1. CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

CHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT

Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is
one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

I agree there is statutory law " allowing" one to make an arrest, however, if the person leaves/flees etc.. the OP would not be justified in using deadly force. While the law may allow you to affect an arrest, with the given scenario, I would err on the side of caution and allow the attacker to leave. It gets real sticky between citizen's arrest and unlawful detention/restraint.

If, by leaving, they were no longer a danger to me or mine, I would do the same and let them flee.

[WildBill]

I would suggest not stepping out of your vehicle at all. Roll up your windows, have your firearm low and ready if you believe you might need it and try to get away safely when you get a chance. I see no reason to step out.

[Bitter Clinger]

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon...

Had that exact experience last year. Simply place foot on go pedal, steer around him, waive bye bye.

The best fight is one you avoid.