PC §46.01. Section 9 - Definition of Machine Gun - Still confused

[TXhntr88]

OK, I'm still confused on the definition of "machine gun" being defined as (my bold edit):
(9) “Machine gun” means any firearm that is capable of shooting more than two
shots automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger

Why isn't this "...more than one shot..."?

I know the federal definition of a machine gun is “any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.”

Is there an example of a gun that should be allowed to shoot two shots with one pull of the trigger? Most O/U or double barrel shotguns I've used have either two triggers or a selector that allows you to choose which barrel to shoot first, but requires a second pull of the trigger to shoot the second barrel.

I tried to search the forums and found only this topic viewtopic.php?f=23&t=51840 but I didn't see a full explanation (apologies if there is a topic that covers this more in depth).

Thanks.

[C-dub]

I'm not sure, but maybe they didn't want a double barrel shotgun to be classified as a machine gun. However, to further confuse you in case you weren't aware, but a machine gun is different than a fully automatic gun. A fully automatic M16 is not a machine gun. IIRC, to be a machine gun it must be belt-fed.

[JP171]

I'm not sure, but maybe they didn't want a double barrel shotgun to be classified as a machine gun. However, to further confuse you in case you weren't aware, but a machine gun is different than a fully automatic gun. A fully automatic M16 is not a machine gun. IIRC, to be a machine gun it must be belt-fed.

negative C dub, the m-249 saw or squad automatic weapon isn't belt fed, nor is the mp-9 or many others and they are machine guns. the m-16 or m-4 battle rifles are not machine guns they are select fire weapons machine guns aren't they are either all or nothing no single shot option

[C-dub]

I'm not sure, but maybe they didn't want a double barrel shotgun to be classified as a machine gun. However, to further confuse you in case you weren't aware, but a machine gun is different than a fully automatic gun. A fully automatic M16 is not a machine gun. IIRC, to be a machine gun it must be belt-fed.

negative C dub, the m-249 saw or squad automatic weapon isn't belt fed, nor is the mp-9 or many others and they are machine guns. the m-16 or m-4 battle rifles are not machine guns they are select fire weapons machine guns aren't they are either all or nothing no single shot option

Really? I thought I'd read that here somewhere. Kinda like, all machine guns are automatic, but not all automatics are machine guns. I thought for sure that a machine gun was belt fed and that was the difference from a regular ole full-auto.

[C-dub]

I'm not sure, but maybe they didn't want a double barrel shotgun to be classified as a machine gun. However, to further confuse you in case you weren't aware, but a machine gun is different than a fully automatic gun. A fully automatic M16 is not a machine gun. IIRC, to be a machine gun it must be belt-fed.

negative C dub, the m-249 saw or squad automatic weapon isn't belt fed, nor is the mp-9 or many others and they are machine guns. the m-16 or m-4 battle rifles are not machine guns they are select fire weapons machine guns aren't they are either all or nothing no single shot option

Hold on a second. The SAW is belt fed.

[JP171]

nope its not, the 240 is the 249 isn't usually, it can be but is usually used with a 100 round box magazine

[nightmare69]

An ATF agent told me once, "if you can hold down the trigger and it keeps going bang until you either let up or run out of ammo, then it's a machine gun". You can pick apart the verbiage all you like but the above is the definition simplified. There maybe some exeptions as there always is with any law.

[C-dub]

nope its not, the 240 is the 249 isn't

http://www.military.com/equipment/m249- ... tic-weapon

The M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, or SAW, is an individually portable, gas operated, magazine or disintegrating metallic link-belt fed, light machine gun ...

[JP171]

nope its not, the 240 is the 249 isn't

http://www.military.com/equipment/m249- ... tic-weapon

The M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, or SAW, is an individually portable, gas operated, magazine or disintegrating metallic link-belt fed, light machine gun ...

smct 3-360 to smct 3-365 and a few years of practical use

[jrs_diesel]

Sounds like we are picking nits here...

[JP171]

Sounds like we are picking nits here...

a little bit, but I did forget about the belt fed provision, I havet used linked ammo since my initial training on the weapon, just the battle box I actually had to go look it up and C dub beat me to it cause I was using my SMCT or soldiers manual of common tasks

[CleverNickname]

A fully automatic M16 is not a machine gun. IIRC, to be a machine gun it must be belt-fed.

That might be the definition in military jargon. But according to federal law, this is the legal definition of "machine gun":

The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

[Jago668]

Could be it was done at 2 shots to limit malfuctions being classed in there. Just my theory.

[C-dub]

I was in the middle of responding and my internet dropped off and I had to reboot.

So, we're all in agreement that the M249 is belt fed?

On the machine gun definition itself, I can certainly be wrong having been a mere airedale squid aviation electronics tech. with no practical experience in the weapons we're discussing.

[Smokey]

I was wondering that too.. So maybe a 2-round burst gun would be OK. (Doubtfully, but it does meet that specific description)