TexasCHLforum.com

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11 ... ry-permit/

Hey everyone,

New member here. Got my LTC about a month ago, but have been lurking here for awhile.
I just saw this story out of Rosenberg, Texas and it really got me angry.
Given the information from this news story - the officers were WAY out of line.

Makes me think twice about volunteering any information about my CCH.
I know they'll find out when they run my license.
Should I inform in advance or wait until I am asked?

What do you think?

By law, you are required to inform the officer when asked for identification. There is no longer a penalty for not informing, but most officers appreciate the heads up.

cyphertext wrote:By law, you are required to inform the officer when asked for identification. There is no longer a penalty for not informing, but most officers appreciate the heads up.

Technically not "inform" that you are carrying, just present your DL and LTC. I usually tell where I'm carrying when stopped, but I don't have to.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE wrote: If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder’s handgun license.

The legal requirement is that you give them your CHL if you are carrying. Even if there is no penalty, you are still breaking the law if you do not.

Give them your LTC. Basing your decision making based on a single incident is bad enough but in this case you have one edited video and the opinion of one side of the incident. If accurate it is of course unconscionable but you also have a guy who was slow to pull over, tried to turn a stop into some kind of discussion, purposely or not answered questions about his gun in a manner that could be considered evasive, and that's just in the news report and highly edited video that was designed to show the man as a victim. By not following the law and revealing your carry status you are breaking the law and would be raising questions with every cop, including the vast majority who have no issue or concern over CC.

1) He should NOT have asked why he was being pulled over at that point. By asking the question at that point, he immediately escalated the situation (IMO)

2) Hand the officer your DL, insurance, and CHL (LTC). You are required to hand the CHL with DL by law when carrying. You don't need to tell the officer you are carrying, he will most likely ask you if you are when you hand the CHL/LTC, and where it is.

3) The officers were absolutely out of line in arresting him based on the information provided. But go back to point 1. Gonzalez escalated the situation by asking why he was pulled over. If he had been more polite/patient at that point, it *probably* would have ended with just the citations (or warning) and him driving off.

loktite wrote: 1) He should NOT have asked why he was being pulled over at that point. By asking the question at that point, he immediately escalated the situation (IMO)

2) Hand the officer your DL, insurance, and CHL (LTC). You are required to hand the CHL with DL by law when carrying. You don't need to tell the officer you are carrying, he will most likely ask you if you are when you hand the CHL/LTC, and where it is.

3) The officers were absolutely out of line in arresting him based on the information provided. But go back to point 1. Gonzalez escalated the situation by asking why he was pulled over. If he had been more polite/patient at that point, it *probably* would have ended with just the citations (or warning) and him driving off.

First, let me say that I am not trying to bash the police in general.
I support law enforcement. But, they are not ALL angels ..... just sayin'

1) ----- Really? Asking why you were pulled over is "escalating the situation". ???
Man, I have escalated a lot of traffic stops in my life then (prior to getting my CHL) and I have NEVER been arrested.
I am ALWAYS polite/pleasant and comply with all request. I usually just get a warning.

2) ----- I agree, and I will hand over my DL & CHL for any traffic stop in the future (been a long time since I was stopped).

3) ---- Yes, the officers were WAY out of line (based on edited video). But, I saw no reason for their reaction. There may be more to the story, but I did not see it here. We shall see. But, when he asked why he was being arrested he was told for failure to use his turn signal and an obstructed view .... seems excessive to me. ARRESTED for a minor traffic violation. WOW! I'd get a good lawyer if I was him.

Asking why he was being pulled over is escalating the situation from a minor traffic stop to an arrest?

I believe in being polite, but if we're judging videos here, I've seen plenty where people were down right rude and irate to the officer and they get a ticket and a "have a nice day" from the officer.

Texsquatch wrote:Asking why he was being pulled over is escalating the situation from a minor traffic stop to an arrest?

I believe in being polite, but if we're judging videos here, I've seen plenty where people were down right rude and irate to the officer and they get a ticket and a "have a nice day" from the officer.

Who said that? I believe it was pointed out as something the driver did , and I won't even call it wrong, but it can lead to conflict. Instead of just letting the cop control the situation the driver is attempting to assert control. Obviously that can lead to increased conflict. We have no way of knowing that it had anything at all to do with the arrest but generally speaking it's not something that will improve your interaction but there you are.

Larz_1 wrote: First, let me say that I am not trying to bash the police in general.
I support law enforcement. But, they are not ALL angels ..... just sayin'

Agreed

Larz_1 wrote: 1) ----- Really? Asking why you were pulled over is "escalating the situation". ???
Man, I have escalated a lot of traffic stops in my life then (prior to getting my CHL) and I have NEVER been arrested.
I am ALWAYS polite/pleasant and comply with all request. I usually just get a warning.

Again, this is my opinion.. but the general order of a traffic stop will come to the officer telling you why you were pulled over. It's almost similar to interrupting. To ask at that point came off as impatient/rude.

Something that was mentioned by the news reporter was that he didn't pull over for 45 seconds. Don't want to read to much into that, maybe that was the first parking lot he could have safely pulled in to. But if he had an opportunity to pull over 20 seconds earlier, then *THAT* would immediately put an officer on a higher alert -- again, my opinion.

Neither justify in any way, form, or fashion the subsequent actions of the officers. My point is that he likely didn't help himself out there.

hehe... I wonder what the obstructed view citation was for.

I believe you have the right to ask why you are being detained... That is not escalating the situation, esp. if asked politely or nicely - which I didn't hear him ask rudely - he agreed to the officers demands and asked why am I being stopped ?(or something to that effect)

To me, I'm wondering if this police department isn't corrupt: http://abc13.com/news/rosenberg-asst-po ... n/1088427/

I've had run in's with the Rosenberg police - they weren't pleasant, I wasn't arrested but both times the officer seemed to have a chip on their shoulder right from the start...so my view of them may be a little skewed.

EEllis wrote:

Texsquatch wrote:Asking why he was being pulled over is escalating the situation from a minor traffic stop to an arrest?

I believe in being polite, but if we're judging videos here, I've seen plenty where people were down right rude and irate to the officer and they get a ticket and a "have a nice day" from the officer.

Who said that? I believe it was pointed out as something the driver did , and I won't even call it wrong, but it can lead to conflict. Instead of just letting the cop control the situation the driver is attempting to assert control. Obviously that can lead to increased conflict. We have no way of knowing that it had anything at all to do with the arrest but generally speaking it's not something that will improve your interaction but there you are.

Asking why you've been pulled over is an attempt to assert control? That's a stretch. It's not as if he said WHATS THE PROBLEM?
He also has the right to ask if he was being detained or if he were free to go without repercussions.

Larz_1 wrote:

loktite wrote: 1) He should NOT have asked why he was being pulled over at that point. By asking the question at that point, he immediately escalated the situation (IMO)......

1) ----- Really? Asking why you were pulled over is "escalating the situation". ???
Man, I have escalated a lot of traffic stops in my life then (prior to getting my CHL) and I have NEVER been arrested.
I am ALWAYS polite/pleasant and comply with all request. I usually just get a warning.....

Tone is everything. We talk about tone-deaf politicians..... well, sometimes we can be tone-deaf too.

How about a friendly, "what did I do?" and a smile as the officer walks up to your window? First of all, it's informative because it can help guide us in what to say or do next, or how to behave. And by "behave", I mean, is it going to become a friendly stop, or strictly business and unpleasant. I have been stopped, and had the officer ask, "do you know why I stopped you?" I've answered truthfully: "Well, I can't think of what it might have been, so I assume it was for speeding?" At least once, the answer was negative, and I was being stopped for something else. The thing is, nobody likes to get stopped, but treating it like a conversation between two adults goes a LONG way to make it less confrontational. Back in my motorcycling days, I got stopped a LOT (red sport bike, full leathers). I would always ask at some point, "is there any chance for some lenience here?" I batted .750 with that one and was let off with warnings. Pretty good odds. Not because I wasn't guilty, but because I was determined to make it as easy on both of us as possible.

Just my 2¢. To each his own.

This is how you do it----true story---from West Texas about two years ago when dlh was pulled over in the afternoon by a trooper from the Texas Department of Public Safety:

as trooper approaches window dlh who has window rolled down very politely says hello sir how are you today?

Trooper: I pulled you over because you passed on the double yellow stripe back there.

dlh--well sir I am sorry, I drive the best I can--I was behind a truck pulling a john deere tractor on a trailer and he pulled all the way over on the shoulder so I could pass him and I tried my best to stay in my lane.

Trooper: Why didnt you stop when I first turned on my overhead lights?

dlh: [very politely] well sir when you got behind me I immediately pulled over.

Trooper: Where are you going?

dlh: I am going to my ranch which is close to "x city."

Trooper: To get to "x city" you should be taking this other road back here.

dlh: Yes sir but the road you suggest is actually farther from my ranch than this road we are on because I am just x miles from the turn-off here to get to my ranch.

Trooper: Well, next time you pass somebody just try to do it more safely.

dlh: yes sir (said politely)

Trooper gets in patrol car and drives off.

This whole exchange took less than five minutes and he did not even ask to see my driver's license.

dlh

dlh wrote:This is how you do it----true story---from West Texas about two years ago when dlh was pulled over in the afternoon by a trooper from the Texas Department of Public Safety:

as trooper approaches window dlh who has window rolled down very politely says hello sir how are you today?

Trooper: I pulled you over because you passed on the double yellow stripe back there.

dlh--well sir I am sorry, I drive the best I can--I was behind a truck pulling a john deere tractor on a trailer and he pulled all the way over on the shoulder so I could pass him and I tried my best to stay in my lane.

Trooper: Why didnt you stop when I first turned on my overhead lights?

dlh: [very politely] well sir when you got behind me I immediately pulled over.

Trooper: Where are you going?

dlh: I am going to my ranch which is close to "x city."

Trooper: To get to "x city" you should be taking this other road back here.

dlh: Yes sir but the road you suggest is actually farther from my ranch than this road we are on because I am just x miles from the turn-off here to get to my ranch.

Trooper: Well, next time you pass somebody just try to do it more safely.

dlh: yes sir (said politely)

Trooper gets in patrol car and drives off.

This whole exchange took less than five minutes and he did not even ask to see my driver's license.

dlh

That is all well and good. However, there are some abusive LEOs out there that politeness does not work with. I've run into three in my 45 + years of driving. Fortunately, they have been the minority.