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Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:21 am
by howdy
Now before I get tactfully slammed, let me say that I know what section 411.185 says about renewal. Then, I read Keith's response to the person asking about minimum caliber requirements for the proficiency test. He posted this:
GC §411.188. HANDGUN PROFICIENCY REQUIREMENT.
(a) The director by rule shall establish minimum standards for handgun proficiency and shall develop
a course to teach handgun proficiency and examinations to measure handgun
proficiency. The course to teach handgun proficiency is required for each person
who seeks to obtain or renew a license and must contain training sessions
divided into two parts.[/color] One part of the course must be classroom instruction
and the other part must be range instruction and an actual demonstration by the
applicant of the applicant’s ability to safely and proficiently use a handgun. An
applicant must be able to demonstrate, at a minimum, the degree of proficiency
that is required to effectively operate a handgun of .32 caliber or above. The
department shall distribute the standards, course requirements, and examinations
on request to any qualified handgun instructor.
(b) Only qualified handgun instructors may administer the classroom instruction
part or the range instruction part of the handgun proficiency course. The
classroom instruction part of the course must include not less than four hours
and not more than six hours of instruction on:
(1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
(2) handgun use and safety;
(3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
(4) proper storage practices for handguns with an emphasis on storage
practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child.
(c) Repealed by Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 156 (S.B. 864), Sec. 3, and Ch.
1387 (H.B. 48), Sec. 5, eff. September 1, 2013
[/quote]
There it is right there in black and white and it says "renewal" requires both classroom AND shooting. Am I reading this wrong? I will still teach the way I KNOW is correct.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am
by TXBO
That's outdated. There is no longer a requirement for additional class time or proficiency test for renewal.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:23 pm
by Keith B
Actually, the Government Code has not been updated to remove the renewal. However, DPS does not require it.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:25 pm
by TXRuger
I renewed mine last year and I didn't need to shoot. I filled out the renewal application on line and paid the $72 renewal + processing fees with my credit card then I received the new plastic in 2 weeks.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:26 pm
by howdy
I know what 411.185 says and I know what the requirements are BUT 411.188 says the renewal requires class/shooting. If you look at this same 411.188, it has all the new requirements of 4 hours/ 6 hours for the original class. 411.185 says no requirement for shooting or class for renewal. But in 411.188 it says renewal requires shooting and class. Is there a new 411.188 where it does not say that?
I am not arguing about the current law....I know what it is. I read 411.188 when Keith posted it for the person asking about handgun caliber and saw what it said. This 411.188 is the current one copied from the State web site.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:32 pm
by Keith B
howdy wrote:If you look at 411.188, it has all the new requirements of 4 hours/ 6 hours. 411.185 says no requirement for shooting or class for renewal. But in 411.188 it says renewal requires shooting and class. Can someone please post the new 411.188 where it does not say that?
There was no change apparently made to 411.188. 411.185 would supersede 411.188.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:35 pm
by TXRuger
I received a letter from Texas DPS 6 months before my CHL expired to remind me I would need to renew my CHL. I went to the
Texas DPS/CHL website, filled out the application and paid the fees then received the new CHL in under 2 weeks. I did not need to take any class or shoot a single round.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:39 pm
by howdy
Keith B wrote:howdy wrote:If you look at 411.188, it has all the new requirements of 4 hours/ 6 hours. 411.185 says no requirement for shooting or class for renewal. But in 411.188 it says renewal requires shooting and class. Can someone please post the new 411.188 where it does not say that?
There was no change apparently made to 411.188. 411.185 would supersede 411.188.
So you see it in 411.188 the way I do. Why would 411.185 supersede 411.188? This is why I love the forum because it forces me to go back and read the statutes. I read 411.185 and skimmed over 411.188. There is an error in the way 411.188 reads. The word "renew " should have been removed.
Again, I KNOW what the law is. I am not arguing or requesting information on the renewal law. I just brought up a point that 411.188 says (in error) that shooting and class are required for renewal.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:59 pm
by ScottDLS
howdy wrote:Keith B wrote:howdy wrote:If you look at 411.188, it has all the new requirements of 4 hours/ 6 hours. 411.185 says no requirement for shooting or class for renewal. But in 411.188 it says renewal requires shooting and class. Can someone please post the new 411.188 where it does not say that?
There was no change apparently made to 411.188. 411.185 would supersede 411.188.
So you see it in 411.188 the way I do. Why would 411.185 supersede 411.188? This is why I love the forum because it forces me to go back and read the statutes. I read 411.185 and skimmed over 411.188. There is an error in the way 411.188 reads. The word "renew " should have been removed.
Again, I KNOW what the law is. I am not arguing or requesting information on the renewal law. I just brought up a point that 411.188 says (in error) that shooting and class are required for renewal.
Oh noooo!!
I can't risk "THE RIDE" ! I have a CHL that I renewed on line with no class.
Now if we get a cop having a bad day and a DA with an attitude, I might take the RIDE! I might even get convicted of a class A misdemeanor (46.02) if I get a bad judge. In fact, carrying under CHL is just a "Defense to Prosecution" by case law, so the bad DA's will soon have the cops rounding us all up for carrying with CHL.
Just wait until open carry!!! There will be mass round ups of open carriers...blood in the streets, warrant squads throwing flash bangs into the houses of LTC holders.
Cats and Dogs will take up residence with each other and live sinfully!!!!!
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:27 pm
by Vol Texan
I guess I look at this whole situation from a different perspective. Instead of saying, "Do I have to shoot for my renewal?", I would probably find myself saying, "Do I get to shoot with this renewal class?"
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:32 pm
by howdy
I give up.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:50 pm
by Dave2
I got my CHL renewed back in March. There was no shooting; *everything* was done online (and pretty simple, IIRC).
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:09 pm
by jmra
howdy wrote:Keith B wrote:howdy wrote:If you look at 411.188, it has all the new requirements of 4 hours/ 6 hours. 411.185 says no requirement for shooting or class for renewal. But in 411.188 it says renewal requires shooting and class. Can someone please post the new 411.188 where it does not say that?
There was no change apparently made to 411.188. 411.185 would supersede 411.188.
So you see it in 411.188 the way I do. Why would 411.185 supersede 411.188? This is why I love the forum because it forces me to go back and read the statutes. I read 411.185 and skimmed over 411.188. There is an error in the way 411.188 reads. The word "renew " should have been removed.
Again, I KNOW what the law is. I am not arguing or requesting information on the renewal law. I just brought up a point that 411.188 says (in error) that shooting and class are required for renewal.
411.185 is the most recently updated. Whenever contridictions exist the most recently updated supersedes the older. Of course I could be mistaken.
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:20 am
by txglock21
howdy wrote:I give up.
I understood what you were saying, I just didn't have a qualified answer for you. Like my dad would say, "You can keep quite and let people think you are a fool, or you can open your mouth and prove you are one."
Re: Shooting Required for Renewal?
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:45 am
by howdy
txglock21 wrote:howdy wrote:I give up.
I understood what you were saying, I just didn't have a qualified answer for you. Like my dad would say, "You can keep quite and let people think you are a fool, or you can open your mouth and prove you are one."
Yea I need to take that advice. Frustrating some time.