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Saturday night I was winding down my day and taking the dogs out for their last lap around the yard. I open the door and from across the street I hear screaming and crying. The park is over there and the dark side of the street but I can see a guy beating up a woman, a barely walking toddler is stumbling around.
In my best authoritarian COP/Drill Sargent voice I boom "IS THERE A PROBLEM!?"
He instantly turned his rage on me. "Go back in the house. . .with a lot of cursing." You get the idea, and it just got worse from there.
He went back to pushing her around and from what I could gather they were looking or some keys that she lost in the area (I think). He could have asked me for a flashlight And I would have helped them look.
When he noticed that I had not gone back in the house he went absolutely nuts! Me being me I already had a pistol in my hand about 2 syllables into his first tirade. So here I am with a 160lbs of dog that turns ham bones into powder in one hand a pistol in the other and my wife just behind me with a .45 and a cell phone full of Po Po. Dis foo still runnin his mouf. The pistols are at the discreet low ready position just behind the thigh not waving around but ready, since he has already started across the street a number of times, like we would run inside but he retreated to keep pushing her around. If he had advanced onto the stairs of my porch, my life would have been irreversibly altered forever. I am to old to take an whoopin and to young to die. This is the problem when we have stupid people roam freely amongst us, his error could change my world in a heart beat.
I don't think he missed a single derogatory term for my genealogy and actually pulled out a couple that I had not heard in a long time.
The couple splits up and I call out to the woman offering her refuge in our home she just keeps going. He cuts across the park, I guess he figured the cops would be there any minute so he better git. All the while he is retreating, he is yelling at me that he will be back in 10 minutes to kill me. All I want to do is go to bed.
The police roll up the far side of the park and have to slow as he crosses their path. I can't believe they didn't park the cruiser on top of him. They come around to where we are standing on the porch and I tell them that was the guy. COP says "your description was incorrect we were advised a black man in a hoody (It was a baggy sweatshirt and baggy shorts). I guess it was prejudice on my part that I just assumed the uniform would be a hoody.
Anyway, they got him and he spent the weekend in the hoosegow probably till arraignment this morning when he will be turned loose on PR. I think they charged him with terroristic threats, how lame. I want to see if they will throw in some federal hate crimes.
I could have just gone back in the house and surrendered the darkness to the evil forces that crawl out from their government subsidized rocks at night and all would have been well. I don't know if I did any good or changed the world that night. The stupid woman will probably testify that the only reason her baby daddy went to jail is because I'm a hater. Now I have to worry and wonder if and when he will come around and try to make good on his threat. My world has already been tipped on end and I haven't even had to pull the trigger. I know people that would say that there is never a justification for lethal force. Maybe they think I could just sit down with him and we can talk, or maybe he learned his lesson in lock up "this time" or what ever. I pray it won't come to the worst case option but I would prefer to go to my grave having had a gun and never needing it than wishing I had one.
Please keep my family in your prayers.
FOLLOW UP:
What I have learned from this is that you can't win.
By engaging in a conversation makes anything that follows pretty much mutual.
By inviting him to "Bring it" pretty much contraindicates any perceived FEAR on my part. I AIN"T SKEERT OF NUTHIN! So they couldn't use the terroristic threat because I wasn't in fear.
The DA didn't say so but I bet having my hand on a gun in my pocket when I step out to take the trash probably makes me the next George Zimmerman. My effort to get him to stop beating up the woman by calling him out was for nothing.
For future reference, shut up, stay inside, call the cops, don't get involved and stay afraid. This is the stuff they don't tell you in CHL class.
BTW; They did say that they were glad to get their hands on him due to many, many outstanding and as yet unanswered felonies. They said that I would probably be way down on his list of things to get in trouble over.

You said it best, when there is no life to protect (justifying the use of deadly force) and worse it is family feud or family violence between two parties, one has just to observe, report (911) and be on the defense. We are not superman nor batman. This is why LEOs are paid a salary.

Just a reminder, simple assault or assault is almost always not justification for the use of deadly force.

Your life did change. You may not have shot the guy but there is no way you will ever forget the feeling you had standing there that night. It will affect you the next time you find yourself trying to determine if deadly force is required.

I would like to think I would have handled it as well as you did. Like you, there would be no way in hades I could have walked back in my house knowing a woman was taking a beating across the street from me.

Beiruty wrote:You said it best, when there is no life to protect (justifying the use of deadly force) and worse it is family feud or family violence between two parties, one has just to observe, report (911) and be on the defense. We are not superman nor batman. This is why LEOs are paid a salary.

Just a reminder, simple assault or assault is almost always not justification for the use of deadly force.

... He stayed on his own side of the street and did not get confrontational with that fool. Running over and playing batman to stop the situation would be questionable if she were in no real danger.

Paint it with different colors now. He is walloping the tar out of her as she begs for her life. Do we become batman at that point or stand by while a human is beat to death? I know what I would do. Probably get killed doing it, but I would not be able to stop myself.

03Lightningrocks wrote: I would like to think I would have handled it as well as you did. Like you, there would be no way in hades I could have walked back in my house knowing a woman was taking a beating across the street from me.

100%

Couldn't do it.

I do think I learned that just not to interact with them from your story. It shouldn't matter if you're 100lbs soaking wet or The Rock™, if someone threatens you, it's a threat, regardless.

Just a couple of comments:

1.Terroristic threatening has nothing to do with your level of fear, but with their intent. If his intent was to place you in fear of imminent serious bodily injury with his threat of violence, then he was guilty of terroristic threatening.

2. It's never a good idea to respond with anything in the line of "Bring It", "Hit Me", "I Dare You". While it doesn't negate the terroristic threats, it does muddy the water if it escalates. Not to mention the fact that it does nothing to deescalate the confrontation. That's supposed to be one of our primary goals if we find ourselves involved in a situation. It's tough, I know.

3. Domestic disputes are horrible things to get involved in. Most definitely try to keep from finding yourself between the feuding couple.

Having said those things, I don't know that I could have only been a witness either. I would have called 911, or had my wife calling before I stepped out. But More than likely I would have yelled something along the lines of what you said you did... "Hey, What's going on?" Or "Hey, Knock it off" and then let the guy know the police are on the way and that I was going to watch what goes on till they got there. Beyond that, Not much conversation would do any good with the guy. All in all, it sounds like you didn't do too bad of a job. Everyone walked away without any additional holes in them, and only people deserving to spend the night in jail did.

TEXASGIANT wrote:For future reference, shut up, stay inside, call the cops, don't get involved and stay afraid. This is the stuff they don't tell you in CHL class.

Hmmm our instructor did advise us to (at least) try to avoid confrontations such as you described.

It's easy for me to say this in hindsight, but IMO the purpose of at least a CHL is SELF-defense, and I would only use my weaponry to help others if I thought that by doing so it would stop an inevitable escalation to myself or my loved ones.

I think your actions were admirable. While I am clear in my mind that I carry for the safety of my family, I could not have remained silent in the situation you described.

Kudos from me.

"For future reference, shut up, stay inside, call the cops, don't get involved and stay afraid. This is the stuff they don't tell you in CHL class." Sorry I have to disagree with this. I'm not going to hide in my house. I would have probably done want you did.

Did you change the world? Yea I think so, you stopped what was going on without shooting anyone, Bad Guy is now having a very nice conversation with the PD and put back into the court system, the woman in the park got some rest while her friend got to hang out with the local PD. in your words "BTW; They did say that they were glad to get their hands on him due to many, many outstanding and as yet unanswered felonies."

I don't see interacting in the situation being batman, maybe all that is needed is just calling 911 but I'm not going to be told I can't stand outside my yard. If more people stood up for each other people would have to be afraid.

I know it seems that woman was ungrateful, but she may have been so beat down that she lost herself. I'd bet she was grateful to you for stepping up, just too scared to say so. So I want to thank you and your wife for involving yourselves. You most likely stopped the violence from continuing and gave her relief.

I understand your need for justice, don't let the legal stuff change your desire to help. You both made a difference!

Sounds to me like you did good. I know that the "smart" thing is to mind your own business, but the story of the Good Samaritan tells us something different. Those thug types always have big mouths and big threats, but I doubt he really wanted to tangle with you and I can assure you he did not want to go a round with your 160 pound dog. That is one of the reasons I love my dogs for security. I have a buddy who is a K9 officer who likes to say, "there is nothing like 90 pounds of snarling German Shepherd to uncrazy someone."

CHLLady wrote:I know it seems that woman was ungrateful, but she may have been so beat down that she lost herself. I'd bet she was grateful to you for stepping up, just too scared to say so. So I want to thank you and your wife for involving yourselves. You most likely stopped the violence from continuing and gave her relief.

I understand your need for justice, don't let the legal stuff change your desire to help. You both made a difference!

I agree. maybe you gave her a chance to recognize that someone cares. Maybe even for just a few hours, you changed her world.

Someone mentioned her lack of gratitude. Unfortunately, many domestic disputes end this way. I posted a long drawn out story about hopping on a guy who was beating his gal. After cops got there, she turned on me like I did something wrong. He would have knocked her silly had I not done something. She even lied to the cops trying to get me in trouble. A half dozen witnesses back me up. The cops diffused the situation and that dumb woman went home with that brute. The cops told me not to worry because they see this all the time. They even had other incidents with this couple on their system. All were domestic issues. She apparently liked getting pummeled.

03Lightningrocks wrote: She apparently liked getting pummeled.

She doesn't. There is a psychosis with battered women. It is a very, very sad situation.

jbarn wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote: She apparently liked getting pummeled.

She doesn't. There is a psychosis with battered women. It is a very, very sad situation.

There are those who take the beatings because they have been beat into submission to believing they either deserved it, or they have an inferiority complex and they think they are totally dependent on the man and can't afford to leave him, etc. There are also those who are so afraid to leave because of retaliation, up to and including the 'if you leave me I will kill you' part.

On the other side of the coin, I have been on domestic abuse calls where the woman calls in to have police arrive, they go to arrest the husband and the wife starts yelling 'don't take him to jail. He didn't mean it. I won't press cahrges.... I was even attacked by a wife when I went to put cuffs on the husband after she had been beat black and blue by him 10 minutes earlier. Both of them ended up going to jail.

A domestic dispute is probably one of the worst things you can get in the middle of period. Unless he is literally killing her or she is at risk of death or serious bodily injury at the time, it's best to just call the police, be a good witness and let them handle the situation.