TexasCHLforum.com

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Is there a Fort Worth city ordinance somewhere prohibiting employees from concealed carry at the library? I'm almost certain there is, but I can't seem to find it. I know schools, court buildings and Fed buildings are off limites, as well as properly posted signs on private property, but I'm not sure the library qualifies. No one seems to know if there is a library policy on it, but with the kind of people that come in here, it would be an excellent idea to have someone armed. My boss doesn't seem to have a clue, so I'm trying to research it myself. Any help would be appreciated.

WildBill wrote:

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Is there a Fort Worth city ordinance somewhere prohibiting employees from concealed carry at the library? I'm almost certain there is, but I can't seem to find it. I know schools, court buildings and Fed buildings are off limites, as well as properly posted signs on private property, but I'm not sure the library qualifies. No one seems to know if there is a library policy on it, but with the kind of people that come in here, it would be an excellent idea to have someone armed. My boss doesn't seem to have a clue, so I'm trying to research it myself. Any help would be appreciated.

First of all, IANAL, this is not legal advice. I don't believe there would be a city ordinance, it would be part of the policy manual. Most employees are give a copy of the policy manual when they are hired and are usually required to sign a statement that they have read it. Since your boss doesn't seem to have a clue [very strange], I would go to the Human Resource department and ask for a copy of the policy manual. I wouldn't specifically ask for the gun or weapons policy, but just the employee handbook. I would also bet that there is a copy online which you can read.

http://fortworthtexas.gov/hr/prr/section.aspx?id=66190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://fortworthtexas.gov/hr/prr/section.aspx?id=66192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Now how did you find THAT?

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Bah, I always move too soon. Part of it says:

----
Firearms At The Workplace
Employees shall not carry or possess a firearm in the course and scope of their employment except in the following circumstances:

They are required to do so by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties
They are retired Peace Officers who have been issued a Certificate of Proficiency by the Fort Worth Police Department in compliance with Section 1701.357 of the Texas State Occupations Code and are required to carry a firearm by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties.
Employees who are licensed by the State of Texas under Article 4413 (29ee), Texas Revised Civil Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun likewise shall not carry or possess a concealed handgun in the course of scope of their employment unless required to do so by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties.

Nothing in this policy shall be construed to prohibit or regulate the carrying of handguns in employee-owned motor vehicles by an employee who has a valid license to carry a concealed handgun under Article 4413 (29ee), Texas Revised Civil Statutes. (revised June 1, 2004)

Any employee found in violation of this regulation shall be disciplined. Such discipline may include termination.
----

So unless the city manager gives me permision, I'm out of luck.

jbarn wrote:

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Bah, I always move too soon. Part of it says:

----
Firearms At The Workplace
Employees shall not carry or possess a firearm in the course and scope of their employment except in the following circumstances:

They are required to do so by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties
They are retired Peace Officers who have been issued a Certificate of Proficiency by the Fort Worth Police Department in compliance with Section 1701.357 of the Texas State Occupations Code and are required to carry a firearm by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties.
Employees who are licensed by the State of Texas under Article 4413 (29ee), Texas Revised Civil Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun likewise shall not carry or possess a concealed handgun in the course of scope of their employment unless required to do so by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties.

Nothing in this policy shall be construed to prohibit or regulate the carrying of handguns in employee-owned motor vehicles by an employee who has a valid license to carry a concealed handgun under Article 4413 (29ee), Texas Revised Civil Statutes. (revised June 1, 2004)

Any employee found in violation of this regulation shall be disciplined. Such discipline may include termination.
----

So unless the city manager gives me permision, I'm out of luck.

Want to know something interesting? 4413 no longer exists. ;)

avarusbrightfyre wrote:

jbarn wrote:

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Bah, I always move too soon. Part of it says:

----
Firearms At The Workplace
Employees shall not carry or possess a firearm in the course and scope of their employment except in the following circumstances:

They are required to do so by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties
They are retired Peace Officers who have been issued a Certificate of Proficiency by the Fort Worth Police Department in compliance with Section 1701.357 of the Texas State Occupations Code and are required to carry a firearm by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties.
Employees who are licensed by the State of Texas under Article 4413 (29ee), Texas Revised Civil Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun likewise shall not carry or possess a concealed handgun in the course of scope of their employment unless required to do so by the City Manager as part of their assigned duties.

Nothing in this policy shall be construed to prohibit or regulate the carrying of handguns in employee-owned motor vehicles by an employee who has a valid license to carry a concealed handgun under Article 4413 (29ee), Texas Revised Civil Statutes. (revised June 1, 2004)

Any employee found in violation of this regulation shall be disciplined. Such discipline may include termination.
----

So unless the city manager gives me permision, I'm out of luck.

Want to know something interesting? 4413 no longer exists. ;)

That may be true, but the first point stating employees must have permission from the City Manager is still valid.

jbarn wrote:

avarusbrightfyre wrote:

jbarn wrote:

avarusbrightfyre wrote:Bah, I always move too soon. Part of it says:
Want to know something interesting? 4413 no longer exists. ;)

That may be true, but the first point stating employees must have permission from the City Manager is still valid.

Actually, it is true. And when you write they "Must" have permission, at what consequence?

avarusbrightfyre wrote:


Just out of curiosity, could my CHL be revoked if the city reported my employment violation to DPS or the police? I know there are circumstances where DPS can revoke your license (or charge you with a crime) for things like failing to heed a private owner's warning to not bring a firearm onto his property or other "belligerent" things like that with regard to firearms. I know this is city property (public property) and things like that shouldn't apply, but I figured I'd ask the question anyway. It's one thing to risk your job, it's another to risk losing my license or being thrown into jail because I'm knowingly disregarding city policy and since it's a firearm related matter I'm sure they'll be a lot more harsh about it.

Sec. 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) The department shall suspend a license under this section if the license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense, or of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense, or of a felony under an information or indictment;
(2) fails to notify the department of a change of address, name, or status as required by Section 411.181;
(3) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of this subchapter of a different category than the license holder is licensed to carry;
(4) fails to return a previously issued license after a license is modified as required by Section 411.184(d);
(5) commits an act of family violence and is the subject of an active protective order rendered under Title 4, Family Code; or
(6) is arrested for an offense involving family violence or an offense under Section 42.072, Penal Code, and is the subject of an order for emergency protection issued under Article 17.292, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(b) If a peace officer believes a reason listed in Subsection (a) to suspend a license exists, the officer shall prepare an affidavit on a form provided by the department stating the reason for the suspension of the license and giving the department all of the information available to the officer at the time of the preparation of the form. The officer shall attach the officer's reports relating to the license holder to the form and send the form and the attachments to the appropriate division of the department at its Austin headquarters not later than the fifth working day after the date the form is prepared. The officer shall send a copy of the form and the attachments to the license holder. If the license holder has not surrendered the license or the license was not seized as evidence, the license holder shall surrender the license to the appropriate division of the department not later than the 10th day after the date the license holder receives the notice of suspension from the department unless the license holder requests a hearing from the department. The license holder may request that the justice court in the justice court precinct in which the license holder resides review the suspension as provided by Section 411.180. If a request is made for the justice court to review the suspension and hold a hearing, the license holder shall surrender the license on the date an order of suspension is entered by the justice court.
(c) The department shall suspend a license under this section:
(1) for 30 days, if the person's license is subject to suspension for a reason listed in Subsection (a)(2), (3), or (4), except as provided by Subdivision (2);
(2) for not less than one year and not more than three years, if the person's license:
(A) is subject to suspension for a reason listed in Subsection (a), other than the reason listed in Subsection (a)(1); and
(B) has been previously suspended for the same reason;
(3) until dismissal of the charges, if the person's license is subject to suspension for the reason listed in Subsection (a)(1); or
(4) for the duration of or the period specified by:
(A) the protective order issued under Title 4, Family Code, if the person's license is subject to suspension for the reason listed in Subsection (a)(5); or
(B) the order for emergency protection issued under Article 17.292, Code of Criminal Procedure, if the person's license is subject to suspension for the reason listed in Subsection (a)(6).

avarusbrightfyre wrote:On a separate note, I am not technically employed by the city, but by a temp agency and I'm just working at the library. It just occurred to me that city directives may not apply to me. That being said, I've never been one to "parse the rules", so I go to work knowing that I could probably get fired if anyone found out.