unholstering in a gun shop...

NcongruNt · #1

Please excuse my ignorance... I'm a new CHLer (waiting on the card in the mail, actually), and while looking through holsters online from local stores, this thought went through my mind:

Say I want to go and check out a holster at my local shop for my carry weapon? The most immediate thought in such a situation is to go into the store, unholster and unload, show clear, and talk to the sales folks and try the fit of the different holsters. Thinking about it, this would violate 46.035(a) - intentionally failing to conceal. It seems exceptions to this must exist, as you can certainly carry a handgun unconcealed at a range, but I don't find anything in the law about that. I have gone into gun shops before with my pistol in a case, pulled it out and showed clear, let the lady at the front verify clear, and then go along my merry way to the holster section. Reading through my trusty CHL handbook, I see nothing there that would allow me to legally do such a thing. Am I missing something here?

PC Â§46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

How do you folks go about this? I am almost certain I am missing something, otherwise no one would be able to bring a handgun into a shop for work, check accessories, or fit holsters.

Mithras61 · #2

The store where I do most of my firearms shopping allows people to either carry concealed (not for shopping/repair/range use), or to bring in an unloaded and cleared firearm for either shopping/repair or use on their range. If I wanted to check fit in a holster, I'd simply avail myself of the second option and carry it open & cleared from my vehicle (where I was covered under traveling laws) into the store.

nemesis · #3

I don't go into a business with a loaded gun if I have the intent of handling the gun. If I was holster shopping, I would enter with an unloaded weapon, slide locked back.

There have been a few occasions when I hadn't planned on unholstering until I was at the business (gun shop or range). In that case, I explain that I'm armed (it's a gun shop, remember) and ask permission to unholster the gun. If they give permission, I slowly and carefully remove the gun and unload with great caution and care, being sure to always point in a safe direction.

NcongruNt · #4

Thanks for the explanations, these seem to be sensible courses of action. I'm also looking for how the law applies here. As discussed in another thread yesterday, 46.035(a) still applies regardless of consent on another's property.

(edited for spelling)

kw5kw · #5

In this case, leave your weapon in the car.

Go into the store and ask to look at a weapon of the same make, model and caliber as yours.

Go holster shopping with that weapon!

problem solved

Russ

NcongruNt · #6

kw5kw wrote:In this case, leave your weapon in the car.

Go into the store and ask to look at a weapon of the same make, model and caliber as yours.

Go holster shopping with that weapon!

problem solved

Russ

Well, a small problem with that... one of the gun shops I frequent is all of 9 blocks from my house. I'm not really inclined to waste the gas or be lazy enough to drive that distance when walking is a much more logical mode of transportation. Also, if I'm either taking the bus (which happens on occasion) or riding with someone else (such as my girlfriend), the option isn't there. I can't exactly unload outside before I go in. Also, a lot of shops don't carry PA-63's or PPK's in stock.

Also, I'd still like to understand the legalities involved, as this is obviously something that happens on a regular basis, and I've never heard of anyone being arrested for bringing a gun into a shop for work or holster fitting. The shop I've brought mine into didn't seem to indicate that it was in any way unusual to bring your pistol in for these purposes.

#7

Technically, when you are carrying pursuant to your CHL, then the gun must remained concealed. As you noted, a property owner cannot give you permission to violate TPC Â§46.035(a). When you are at the range, you arguably aren't carrying pursuant to your CHL, but under TPC Â§46.15(b)(4) - "sporting activity."

As a practical matter, as long as you do have permission from the shop owner to try on holsters, I cannot imagine a LEO making the arrest or an ADA accepting charges. I face the same issue when I have my suits made. I have to admit it makes me uneasy, but the shop owner doesn't care and he has a lot of customers that have suits made to accommodate a sidearm. I've had HPD detectives in there twice when I was standing in front of a mirror with my pistol on and they never gave it a second thought. They didn't ask if I was a COP or CHL, they just glanced at the gun and went about their business.

Chas.

tomc · #8

kw5kw wrote:Go into the store and ask to look at a weapon of the same make, model and caliber as yours.

Go holster shopping with that weapon!

Be careful with this approach, most gun shops don't like the possibility of someone putting holster or wear marks on their new firearms. If the store has gun rentals, they might let you use them.

nitrogen · #9

When I've been at the bullet Trap, they've pulled out a rental gun that's the same make/model as one I was holster shopping for.

There was a time I was magazine shopping for my M&P, and I wanted to see if a sigma mag would fit. They didn't have an M&P for rent, or one matching my caliber on display, so I asked if I could remove my weapon and clear it. they asked me to go to the firing range to do that, which I did.

And no, the Sigma mag didn't fit; I had to special order them.

razoraggie · #10

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I cannot imagine a LEO making the arrest or an ADA accepting charges. Chas.

LOL......ADA

Venus Pax · #11

Do you have an extra gun w/ holster?
If so, carry an alternate gun for protection. Bring the gun that's getting a new holster to the shop unloaded, and let the shop owner/manager know what you're doing. Make sure the slide is locked back, and hand it to him/her to inspect before going about your shopping.

If they aren't comfortable with you trying on holsters with your unloaded gun, I would go elsewhere. (I've never met anyone that had issues with this. Academy even let me do it.)

KBCraig · #12

Legally speaking, revealing your CHL gun for this purpose would be exactly the same as revealing it to be unloaded and wire-tied at gun shows that require such. In other words: not technically in compliance with the law, but highly unlikely to get you in trouble.

Kevin

maximus2161 · #13

There is a gun store I go into in DFW quite often for supplies and holsters. If I am holster searching I will take the gun inside - unloaded and cased. I know all the salespeople and they actually go and help me hunt for what I am looking for. When checking out the holster I want to buy...I make sure they see the gun is unloaded before trying the holster.

However on 2 occasions I have been carrying while shopping at the store and took out my firearm. But the way in went down was like this: I was picking up some ammo when I saw a holster I wanted. I told the guy I would go to me vehicle and disarm and come back inside. I had a case in my truck. He said that was not needed and I could unload right there in the store and I disarmed in the rear of the store where the holsters are. Granted I believe I was the only customer in the store.

The only other time I was in the same store and was carrying my S&W 638 in a SOB holster. While in there...again getting some supplies....one of the guys I know starts telling me about this lubricant/cleaner product called Strike Hold. I said I would buy a can. He asked if I was carrying carrying. I told him I was and what I was carrying. He asked to see my 638 to demonstrate this product. Again I was the only customer in the store. I unloaded my gun and he went to work cleaning it and telling me about this stuff. He cleaned off the cylinder of my gun so it looked new.

Anyway....as a rule I would not do that but in these two occasions I didnt feel unsafe and it was done at their promting. But I have never done that in any other store. Usually if I need to take a firearm into a gun store for something like sights, holster, parts, etc. then I keep the gun in question unloaded and cased while carrying concealed another gun.

NcongruNt · #14

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Technically, when you are carrying pursuant to your CHL, then the gun must remained concealed. As you noted, a property owner cannot give you permission to violate TPC Â§46.035(a). When you are at the range, you arguably aren't carrying pursuant to your CHL, but under TPC Â§46.15(b)(4) - "sporting activity."

As a practical matter, as long as you do have permission from the shop owner to try on holsters, I cannot imagine a LEO making the arrest or an ADA accepting charges. I face the same issue when I have my suits made. I have to admit it makes me uneasy, but the shop owner doesn't care and he has a lot of customers that have suits made to accommodate a sidearm. I've had HPD detectives in there twice when I was standing in front of a mirror with my pistol on and they never gave it a second thought. They didn't ask if I was a COP or CHL, they just glanced at the gun and went about their business.

Chas.

Ok, I see the relevance about ranges under TPC Â§46.15(b)(4).

It does bother me that there is nothing in the law protecting someone from prosecution for doing something so very commonly necessary as bringing a handgun to a gun shop for holster fitting or repair, regardless of whether under CHL or not. While I agree that it's very unlikely that someone will be arrested or prosecuted for such an act, the slight possibility is still there. It only takes one cop and one DA (Harris County, anyone?) for this to turn into a bad situation, with no proper defense or legal recourse.

Has there been any precedent regarding this issue?

NcongruNt · #15

Venus Pax wrote:Do you have an extra gun w/ holster?
If so, carry an alternate gun for protection. Bring the gun that's getting a new holster to the shop unloaded, and let the shop owner/manager know what you're doing. Make sure the slide is locked back, and hand it to him/her to inspect before going about your shopping.

If they aren't comfortable with you trying on holsters with your unloaded gun, I would go elsewhere. (I've never met anyone that had issues with this. Academy even let me do it.)

Not yet. I've got a Hi-Power lined up to buy from a friend, though he's in school working on finals right now, so his schedule is pretty tight. I should have it within a couple of days.

The point of my question is more hypothetical rather than simply pertaining to my situation. What seems to be the case is that it's technically illegal to bring a pistol into anywhere but your own property or a sporting activity area and have it not concealed. Yes, everyone does it anyway and no one gets arrested for it. It really bothers me that given the law here, anyone could be arrested and prosecuted for something for which there is such a positive ethical consensus.

(edited for clarity of language)