My plastic has been mailed so should arrive within a few days I would think.
i work at a church and had planned to carry at work (no 30.06 signs!); however, today, it occurred to me that I better check the employee handbook and I am glad I did. It does prohibit me from having "a firearm or illegal weapon."
It could get interesting. I am support staff, not ministerial staff, and my work days are Monday-Friday. Ministers are considered "on duty" on Sundays, so they get Friday off. i am also a member of this church and attend on Sundays...not considered a work day, although the members think if I'm there, I'm working. So, the way I see it, there shouldn't be any reason I couldn't carry on Sunday. If anyone were to find out (and there's no reason for anyone to ever know) and they were to try to enforce the employee rules, I can say I'm not at work and the handbook says "at work." If they want to insinuate that I am at work, I'll tell them I should get Fridays off.
I'm sure not going to bring it up by asking anyone about it, as I sure don't want them to decide to post a 30.06.
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle; Psalm 144:1-2
CHL - 2010; NRA RSO - 2011, NRA Chief RSO - 2014
NRA Pistol Instructor -2013, NRA Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor - 2015
Lifetime NRA Member - 2013
If there is no 30.06 posted then my opinion is concealed means concealed. Also I agree with your thought process about Sunday, you are off work so the policy should not be applied, nor would I bring it up to anybody.
I work at a church in a nice part of suburbia. I consider Sunday attending our services to be different than during the week in the office.
We have the same type of no weapons policy. In the last year, we have had multiple situations with angry 'mad at the world' type people, drug addicts looking for money, a couple of theft/burglaries, and a couple times where police were called because of suspicious behavior (I.e. we once had a middle-eastern woman deliver a note that Christians were evil and in danger...blah, blah, blah.). After one of these situations, I had three nervous people ask me if I was armed within 5 minutes. For a while, I only carried after hours, but after enough weird situations, I carry all the time. I don't tell anyone. I was outed by a fellow gun nut once - I don't know if he saw anything, but said he knew I was armed. Even then, I never answered the question. No big deal. My defense is that our handbook says that our policy is guidelines, and not hard rules - and people there know and trust me. I keep quiet about it, and don't talk/joke about guns.
My advice, don't do it if you think you could use your job, but Sunday is its own thing as far as I'm concerned. If you feel you are respected/trusted by an executive pastor/decision maker, you might want to privately bring it up with him/her. Dont tell anyone else, and keep the meeting discreet. Make sure you aren't/haven't been carrying when you do this so you can be honest, but also, share your concerns. You might even want to ask what the plans are should there be a threat. Be respectful of his/her decision, as this person is your pastor and employer, as well as brother in Christ. How you respond will likely give you a better chance should this person change his/her mind later on.
One other thing: Don't mention 30.06. If the sign isn't up, don't give them any reason to put it up. If/when you have these conversations, just respectfully and politely share your safety concerns, there is no need to get into what is legal, etc.
Appreciate all input. Rrash, especially appreciate your thoughts as an employee/member. Our policy states that we can be terminated for violations but we also have no real security policy and have aome of the same issues you mnetioned, but on a smaller town scale.
As you said, no way would I bring up the 30.06 since I don't want them to even be aware of that option.
Um- correct me if I misread this, but you would be in violation:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
I'm not sure if the church office is considered on the premises of a place of worship or not. It may be splitting hairs, but is it worth loosing your ticket over?
Like I said, I read it as illegal to carry there; I usually tend to error on the side of caution so I'd probably leave it locked in the car.
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
(h-1) *[as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., HB 2300.] It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
So - I'd guess it is a matter of following the employee handbook.
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
Grillmark55 wrote:
So - I'd guess it is a matter of following the employee handbook.
When I'm there as an employee, I will most likely do that. When I'm there as a member...well, we'll see...
I see 3 options for you here:
1) Carry concealed during your work day. Concealed means concealed. The worst case scenario (which, IMHO, is unlikely because of the employer and the probability of being outed) is being fired for violation of organization policy. This is a big risk however, as long as you disarm or leave when notified, you are not criminally liable. (IANAL!)
2) Seek permission from the Pastor/Administrator for exemption to the policy. Let them know you are a CHL holder and responsible member/employee and have the best interest and safety of the Church in mind. They may actually see your point and grant you a WRITTENexemption to policy. However, this could work the other way and more solidify their stance and give you effective (verbal) notice to never carry there. Again, it's a risk.
3) Leave it in the car Mon-Fri and carry away on Sunday.
Armed not dangerous but potentially lethal.
CHL Application mailed 10/2/12
Plastic in hand 11/16/12
As with any office environment, make sure you have a plan of action should things go bad. Before I made my decision to carry, I parked in a different location (by an emergency exit nearest my office).
Try talking to the pastor/leader at your church. Explain the situation and possible issues, and ask for permission. In a normal work situation, I would never recommend asking permission, but if you have a good relationship with the leader(s) of your church, then it might not be a bad idea in this case.
Asking someone will have to wait...we are without a pastor (who is my direct supervisor) right now, but I believe one will be coming on board before much longer. Our Admin guy...well, we can work together but if I ever have a suggestion, I always pass it on to someone else that I trust and then have them bring it up because no matter how good of an idea it is, if he knows it comes from me, it doesn't get heard. And I don't know who I would trust with this issue as I sure don't want a big deal to be made of it, to the point someone looks into the laws and discovers the 30.06 rule. Even if I can't carry, I want our CHL members to be able to at least. So for now, I will probably carry on Sundays and in the unlikely event I am discovered, I can make the case that I am not an employee then.
Who knows, your new pastor might even like you carrying. I know for our church, we have a plain clothed security personnel that more or less shadows the pastor on Sundays. Talking with my police friends, there are more threats than we would like to know.
Is the wording in the reg 30.06 text?
PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent;
and (2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner
of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f). (3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both
English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one
inch in height; and
public. (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the
So, the way I see it, there shouldn't be any reason I couldn't carry on Sunday. If anyone were to find out (and there's no reason for anyone to ever know) and they were to try to enforce the employee rules, I can say I'm not at work and the handbook says "at work." If they want to insinuate that I am at work, I'll tell them I should get Fridays off. 
