TexasCHLforum.com

In order to avoid hijacking a previous thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=64506" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I am starting a new one to more broadly discuss the issue of accidental reveals and notifications.

My question is: Do you assume when you notice a gun on a person that the individual is a CHL holder and is legally able to carry? If the person is a repair person and the accidently reveal, do you trust them and not think twice about it? If the person in your home is a long time aquaintance that's one thing. However, suppose you called your cable company to repair the cable. You most likely won't know the repair person. How do you know they are licensed?

My approach is, when I don't have a long relationship with the repair person, I will not assume that said individual is licensed and means me no harm. I would insist on seeing a CHL or demand they leave. I, myself, am always armed at home so I would not panic or cause a major ruckus. If the repair person has a CHL, they may stay and work with my blessing. If not, they must leave or, at least, disarm. I believe in the addage "trust but verify".

Thoughts?

You are reasonable in your actions. Just ask the tech guy nicely.

I "assume" everyone is armed. I did this so I could stop feeling like I am a "protector". I'm just a trying to protect myself now, and as long as its holstered I've got no issue with it. When (and if) we get to an open carry state if a repair person came to my door, they are going to be greeted with a gun on my hip and I would hope they would do likewise.

This idea that we have to make sure everyone is legally carrying according to the state issued permission cards is something we really need to get over.

Remember the video that mentioned liberty? Liberty means that others can exercise their rights the same as you. If they are acting in a civil manner then why should you care?

What is in my pockets or on my belt is not any of your business.

I probably would not say anything.

I believe in liberty and the second amendment.

Anygunanywhere

I think everyone who isn't a felon (and some who are) should be allowed to carry. I treat every stranger with the same wariness, regardless of whether I am sure they have a gun or whether I just need to assume they do for my own safety. Have a plan (see rule #5 HERE).

When I allow a service person in my home I am polite and professional, but also watchful. I assume he (or she) has the same right to personal protection as me. They are entering a strangers house and have the right to protect themselves. Am I making any guarantees to them to keep them safe? Do they know whether I am murderously crazy, unsafe, irrational, violent, racist or some random moron that might unintentionally put them in harms way?

If I was able to confirm that a service person was in my home armed, I would be a bit more watchful, but I don't think my plan would change. I would probably stop them as they were leaving and point out their gap in concealment.

Here is my take. If I see a handgun on a repair person in my home, it will raise suspicion. I will then make the effort to ensure they can legally posses that firearm by mentioning CHL. IMO if they are carrying and must get into the positions that many repair technicians have to and they are not concealed well enough, then they need to know about the fact they will end up in some anti's home and get the police called.

Now, there is one plus. If it is a plumber and he is carrying in an SOB holster, it would be a plus as it might cover up what we normally see when plumbers bend over to work under your sink!!

Keith B wrote:Now, there is one plus. If it is a plumber and he is carrying in an SOB holster, it would be a plus as it might cover up what we normally see when plumbers bend over to work under your sink!!

And here I thought if I even mentioned the word "spackle" and "crack kills" in the same sentence, I would get into trouble...

But seriously, I really don't believe a repairman would carry on their person whilst working in your home...I don't see that happenig to the point where it would be a common practice...

If they did produce, or verify they had a CHL, I would not have a problem with it then...but I would have to ask..."Does the carrying of a weapon on you in a persons home while you are working help you??? I would think it would hurt you rolling around on the floor, through crawl spaces, getting hung up on stuff in tight placees...etc etc etc...

I just don't see this as a thing that happens very much in the real world...

How about this - It was YOUR gun that was noticed. What would you expect the person/persons who saw it to do? What would you want them to do?

I'll admit that I struggled for the first several months when I was carrying about what I would do is someone accidentally saw my gun. It could have happened several times as the wind blew my shirt at the gas station or while I was reaching across the windshield to wash it. Reading the stories here on the forum, I realized that I was going to have to train my instant panic response not to do so and to come across as blase about the situation.

I begin to realize that those others who are carrying, legally or not, might be going through the same thing that I was. The last thing that I would want to do is to trigger some sort of a panic reaction on their part. While I made the choice to carry legally, I also realize that some do not, just as some choose to ignore the laws while driving. A person with a extra-legal gun might be more prone to a panic attack that I was if the fact that they had a gun was suddenly pointed out.

For me, seeing a gun is simply going to sharpen my focus on the individual, especially if it is a repairman or someone else that I've invited to my home. As long as they are acting normally and I fully support their reason to be there, it is fine with me. Someone with ill intent has likely not waited to show me their gun until I could accidentally do so.

I hope that in the course of my daily life, I pass at least 10 other people who are carrying guns. I'll likely never know who they are, whether they are off duty LEOs, fellow CHL holders or simply those who choose not to be unarmed in public. I'll continue to rely on my own situational awareness. I watch those around me for any sign of a behavior out of the ordinary. I figure that I'm much better off observing those behaviors than I am worrying about who might be carrying and why.

anygunanywhere wrote:This idea that we have to make sure everyone is legally carrying according to the state issued permission cards is something we really need to get over.

Remember the video that mentioned liberty? Liberty means that others can exercise their rights the same as you. If they are acting in a civil manner then why should you care?

What is in my pockets or on my belt is not any of your business.

I probably would not say anything.

I believe in liberty and the second amendment.

Anygunanywhere

I agree with your position Anygun. However, the question is not about just any one anywhere. It's specifically about a person who has entered your home for a service call and in the process of performing their duties, reveals a formerly concealed handgun. Why would it be prudent to assume that person has no ill intentions if you don't know the person? Even if out in public, how do you reasonably distinguish between the criminal and non-criminal if you saw a gun (barring open-carry states)? Accidental reveals will give reason for suspicion. In my home, I think it prudent to ask.

jayinsat wrote: Accidental reveals will give reason for suspicion.

If you see an accidental exposure from anyone anywhere you automatically suspect that the person is a criminal?

Interesting.

Do you want me to think the same of you?

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote:

jayinsat wrote: Accidental reveals will give reason for suspicion.

If you see an accidental exposure from anyone anywhere you automatically suspect that the person is a criminal?

Interesting.

Do you want me to think the same of you?

Anygunanywhere

Any gun, I'm not saying I would treat you as such. I'm saying I'm not going to assume innocence and ignore the potential threat. Is it impossible to imagine that a murder uses his position as a repairman to gain entrance to your home?

chasfm11 wrote:I hope that in the course of my daily life, I pass at least 10 other people who are carrying guns. I'll likely never know who they are, whether they are off duty LEOs, fellow CHL holders or simply those who choose not to be unarmed in public. I'll continue to rely on my own situational awareness. I watch those around me for any sign of a behavior out of the ordinary. I figure that I'm much better off observing those behaviors than I am worrying about who might be carrying and why.

Exactly.

Now let's add Open Carry...

We're always saying that a gun is merely a tool. And I agree.
The repairman has a bag full of hard objects, any of which can be employed to inflict bodily harm.
Should I let the repair person bring a hammer into my house? A torch?

If seeing a gun = automatic reason to fear the person possessing it.... to the people in this forum.... then we have no right to expect the general public to feel any differently about concealed carry. IMO.

jayinsat wrote: Any gun, I'm not saying I would treat you as such. I'm saying I'm not going to assume innocence and ignore the potential threat.

Since you are not assuming innocence you are assuming guilt. Is the presence of a firearm a threat?

jayinsat wrote:Is it impossible to imagine that a murder uses his position as a repairman to gain entrance to your home?

Yes it is possible and happens quite often. I am not denying that fact.

Now, tell me, do you treat everyone with the same suspicion. Yes or no.

Why does the presence of a firearm make it more likely that the individual will cause harm?

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote:

jayinsat wrote: Any gun, I'm not saying I would treat you as such. I'm saying I'm not going to assume innocence and ignore the potential threat.

Since you are not assuming innocence you are assuming guilt. Is the presence of a firearm a threat?

jayinsat wrote:Is it impossible to imagine that a murder uses his position as a repairman to gain entrance to your home?

Yes it is possible and happens quite often. I am not denying that fact.

Now, tell me, do you treat everyone with the same suspicion. Yes or no.

Why does the presence of a firearm make it more likely that the individual will cause harm?

Anygunanywhere

I see your point completely. In all honesty, any stranger in my home puts me at high alert. True, any object is a potentially lethal weapon and I should (and will) treat it as such. However, a firearm is a more effective, long range weapon and therefore, in my opinion, sets it apart. I do see your points though and appreciate the dialogue.

If the gun is resting in its holster and isn't being pointed at me, then what business is it of mine? Really?

Have we all been so poisoned by the anti-gun -- indeed, the anti-liberty -- mentality promoted by the left that we automatically find the presence of a firearm other than our own to be intimidating and worthy of suspicion?