Police/Bartender Brawl in Chicago:

[John R. Fuller]

Tonight, my wife and I watched a tape of the fight between the off duty male drunk policeman and the female bartender. The policeman seemed to be giving more than he got in the fight. When the segment ended my wife was mad because I did not take the bartender's side of the story as one sided.

During the tape, I saw the presumeable drunk patron corner the bartender. The bartender shoved the patron and then it was the one sided fist to cuffs and fist head and hold no hold's barred fight.

In no way am I excusing the subsequent behavior of the off duty policeman, but I did see the bartender shove him first. My position is that both should be prosecuted for assault and battery.

I think that this is a wonderful teaching moment for Texas CHL in how NOT to deesculate a bad situation. I don't believe shoving someone when cornered will lessen the problem especially after the one being shoved is already drunk and irrational.

The question is, how does one deal with this type of situation as a CHL holder while armed or disarmed? It may sound silly since most of us will probably not be involved in a barroom brawl especially while armed. One could however be faced with a similar incident in a restaurant or any public space. I am interested in reading other opinions on this problem. Thank You

[Liberty]

Tonight, my wife and I watched a tape of the fight between the off duty male drunk policeman and the female bartender. The policeman seemed to be giving more than he got in the fight. When the segment ended my wife was mad because I did not take the bartender's side of the story as one sided.

During the tape, I saw the presumeable drunk patron corner the bartender. The bartender shoved the patron and then it was the one sided fist to cuffs and fist head and hold no hold's barred fight.

In no way am I excusing the subsequent behavior of the off duty policeman, but I did see the bartender shove him first. My position is that both should be prosecuted for assault and battery.

I think that this is a wonderful teaching moment for Texas CHL in how NOT to deesculate a bad situation. I don't believe shoving someone when cornered will lessen the problem especially after the one being shoved is already drunk and irrational.

The question is, how does one deal with this type of situation as a CHL holder while armed or disarmed? It may sound silly since most of us will probably not be involved in a barroom brawl especially while armed. One could however be faced with a similar incident in a restaurant or any public space. I am interested in reading other opinions on this problem. Thank You

A drunk male cop has a female bartender backed into a corner she trys to push the brute back and you blame the girl? I didn't see the film so I admitedly might be missing something. A female physically getting cornered by a bigger drunk male has been assaulted. She should have kneed the guy and used anything at her disposal. A bartender should at least have had some pepper spray on her person

Just because the guy is a cop doesn't mean he is a good guy. in fact there is a pretty good chance that this obvious bad guy will continue to keep his job. Its important to understand this. I pity any females he happens to pull over.

[seamusTX]

In no way am I excusing the subsequent behavior of the off duty policeman, but I did see the bartender shove him first. My position is that both should be prosecuted for assault and battery.

I disagree. The oaf went behind the bar. That's trespassing. The bartender had the right to remove him.

Aside from any legal technicalities, a real man does not beat down a woman.

- Jim

[Greybeard]

The video (at least partial) for those who have not seen: http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_081001804.html

I agree with seamus. No way that lady should be prosecuted for trying to push the drunk away from her - particularly in a space where she had every right to be and he did not.

[Lumberjack98]

The cop was out of line. He should be fired and prosecuted.

[txinvestigator]

He was off duty and drunk. He should be treated as any citizen (which he is) that assaults another.

[SC1903A3]

I saw the video on the news last night. A friend of mine that works for the Irving Police was over at the house and saw the video also. We both agreed that once that guy stepped behind the bar that all bets were off. I'm ticked that it took so long for the other patrons to get involved. I was raised "Old School", if a man lays a hand on a woman he gets put on the ground before he can blink.

[casselthief]

Abbate has been put on leave pending an internal investigation, authorities said Wednesday. He is expected to be fired after the investigation, Chicago Police Department spokeswoman Monique Bond said.

sounds to me like he's going to hafta find himself a new line o' work, too.

[Rallyman]

From what I saw this is clear cut. The (ex)cop was way out of line. He needs to be arrested and charged, then he needs to lose his job.

Would anyone feel comfortable with a guy like this on patrol in your town??

[player_twister]

The question is, how does one deal with this type of situation as a CHL holder while armed or disarmed?

I am also very curious about this. It looks like she is getting brutally beaten, but afterwards, she gets up, almost looks unharmed. I am sure she was bruised plenty. What I mean is, she really looked like her life was in danger. You never know with some of these crazies out there.

[seamusTX]

It looks like she is getting brutally beaten, but afterwards, she gets up, almost looks unharmed. I am sure she was bruised plenty. What I mean is, she really looked like her life was in danger.

The fact that she was still on her feet is misleading. People who are pumped full of adrenaline can keep moving in spite of serious injuries. They feel it later.

She could very well have suffered a concussion, chipped bone in her face, or damaged vertebrae that will trouble her for the rest of her life.

One punch can kill a person. That's how Harry Houdini died, and it has happened many times in boxing.

I failed to try to answer John's question about how to deal with this kind of situation. I'll try now.

We have no idea what was said before the incident on tape. The bartender may have cut the guy off because he was drunk, or maybe he made a rude comment that she returned in kind. IMHO, the way to avoid this type of attack is to see it coming and either be somewhere else or summon help.

- Jim

[player_twister]

IMHO, the way to avoid this type of attack is to see it coming and either be somewhere else or summon help.

That still doesn't answer the question. Suppose, you/me with a CHL, are the only "help" that is present.

[seamusTX]

I dunno. That's a very dicey situation. Chicago cops carry in bars all the time -- ocasionally one gets drunk and starts shooting. They also tend to cover for each other.

I would not want to threaten or use force on a cop, even if it were justified.

Pepper spray might have been the best solution once the punching started.

- Jim

[Lumberjack98]

He was off duty and drunk. He should be treated as any citizen (which he is) that assaults another.

I agree with this from a prosecution standpoint.

However from the CPD standpoint, he should be fired. They should hold him to a higher standard as an officer.

[Lumberjack98]

The question is, how does one deal with this type of situation as a CHL holder while armed or disarmed? It may sound silly since most of us will probably not be involved in a barroom brawl especially while armed. One could however be faced with a similar incident in a restaurant or any public space. I am interested in reading other opinions on this problem. Thank You

If placed in this particular situation, I would not have drawn on the cop. I agree that pepper spray probably would have been best, but I don't carry any so I wouldn't have had any. I probably would have tried to push the guy off the woman and pull her out of there.