TexasCHLforum.com

Pretend situation. What can a Texas CHL holder do?

1. Mon. morning TXCHL is dropping off kids at Texas school. TXCHL is driving car in parking lot and is carrying.
Bad Guy appears and opens fire and runs into school. No armed police/security on scene. Can CHL respond by entering
the school? Or must he sit and watch?

2. Same thing except the TXCHL yells out his car window offering assistance to school Principal. Principal
says YES. Can CHL enter the building?

Feedback please.

I'm sure someone will chime in on the legality of the action, but I will just say from a personal perspective. If there is something I can safely do to protect anyone, and said action will not endanger someone I love (ie I'm not leaving my girlfriend unprotected), I will do it. I don't care if there is a law against me going in to that school building or not, I am going to try and help and ill face the consequences later. If I can save the lives of a hand full of children and it merely means I have to deal with the legal consequences, then so be it. I will not stand idly by and let undue harm come to an innocent, my conscience would not allow it. Again, please note I said safely, in any situation the last thing that is needed is someone playing hero and being reckless, but having an open shot at someone otherwise engaged is an easy decision. One each person has hopefully taken a mental effort to understand, and rightfully should have as part of the responsibility of being a chl holder. The mall situation where the chl holder didn't shoot comes to mind. He prepared for action, but couldn't safely take it so he didn't.

I would respond and if necessary, I would rely upon the defense of "necessity" found in TPC 9.22.

Chas.

TPC §9.22 wrote:NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

Your CHL gives you the right to carry a handgun concealed. Concealed means concealed. When may you unconceal it?

When it is necessary for lawful use, self defense defense of others, property etc.

You can even yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, provided there is a fire.

JALLEN wrote:Your CHL gives you the right to carry a handgun concealed. Concealed means concealed. When may you unconceal it?

When it is necessary for lawful use, self defense defense of others, property etc.

You can even yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, provided there is a fire.

Or you can yell "Fire!" if you want everyone to open up on the BG at once.



Anygunanywhere

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I would respond and if necessary, I would rely upon the defense of "necessity" found in TPC 9.22.

Chas.

TPC §9.22 wrote:NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

That's what I was thinking. If I'm confident of what is occurring, I'm not going to wait for permission. Now, I'm not sure about this school year, but in previous years I have known of at least four fathers that are LEOs. Either one of them could be dropping off or picking up their kid(s) at the same time I would be there. We often see each other during those times. The only thing is, though, neither of them know I have a CHL yet, a couple other fathers do.

In a situation like this, if one of the LEOs is there and begins to enter, I will quickly make them aware of my status and ask to assist them. If they say, yes, then I'm also acting at the direction of a LEO. I think that is also an exception. No?

glock27 wrote:
i would respond regardless of the law... would you really be able to emotionally "sit and watch"??? Its a life and death situation for you bet I am in there, and i aint waitin for permission ether, i will read the fine print of the law later.

Agree 100%

If I just dropped off my kid, I am going in. That's why I carry a gun - to protect my family.

Even if I haven't dropped my kid off yet, I would go in after making sure my son was safe. The kids and their families are my friends. I would do what I could to protect them.

I'm going in. That is not way I intended the question to be interpreted. My question was the "legality" of it and as a poster
clearly said, "yes". The Situation Changed and Protecting Others From Danger Authorizes Breaking Concealment and Doing
What is Necessary, Hopefully Not Getting Yourself Killed. Thanks for the feedback.

So then same goes for a Post Office, 51% Business, race track, polling place, court and airport.

I get what your saying.. Does a situation that needs a gun carrying citizen legally trump the laws that keep us out of those establishments..

I sat through a seminar about schools & active shooters, pretty good information given. One of the topics sorts touched on this. The LEO said if a civilian were to obtain or carry in an incident like this, you better not have a weapon in your hand when the cavalry arrives. When they show up, they are not there to help the victims who are already shot, they walk right past them, they are there to shoot the BG, period. If you have a gun, and they see you, you will be shot, period. There will be no "put down your weapon", "stop", ect....person with gun is shot.

68blackbird wrote:I sat through a seminar about schools & active shooters, pretty good information given. One of the topics sorts touched on this. The LEO said if a civilian were to obtain or carry in an incident like this, you better not have a weapon in your hand when the cavalry arrives. When they show up, they are not there to help the victims who are already shot, they walk right past them, they are there to shoot the BG, period. If you have a gun, and they see you, you will be shot, period. There will be no "put down your weapon", "stop", ect....person with gun is shot.

This is why I think it would be a bad idea to enter a building where an active shooting is already taking place, this would be bordering on batman license territory (I KNOW, its exigent circumstances). What if another person has the same idea, sees you as the shooter and shoots at you? Or viceversa. Police show up without you realizing it (because as soon as I know there are cops on the scene my gun is going away) and put you down.
If I am already there, in the building, know who the shooter is, or where the shooter is, I would do what i felt I had to to protect those lives. If I'm outside it would be a much more complicated decision. I would need more information before kicking down doors and going in.

anygunanywhere wrote:

JALLEN wrote:Your CHL gives you the right to carry a handgun concealed. Concealed means concealed. When may you unconceal it?

When it is necessary for lawful use, self defense defense of others, property etc.

You can even yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, provided there is a fire.

Or you can yell "Fire!" if you want everyone to open up on the BG at once.



Anygunanywhere

glock27 wrote:

bigbigtex wrote:Pretend situation. What can a Texas CHL holder do?

1. Mon. morning TXCHL is dropping off kids at Texas school. TXCHL is driving car in parking lot and is carrying.
Bad Guy appears and opens fire and runs into school. No armed police/security on scene. Can CHL respond by entering
the school? Or must he sit and watch?

2. Same thing except the TXCHL yells out his car window offering assistance to school Principal. Principal
says YES. Can CHL enter the building?

Feedback please.

i would respond regardless of the law... would you really be able to emotionally "sit and watch"??? Its a life and death situation for you bet I am in there, and i aint waitin for permission ether, i will read the fine print of the law later.

Interestingly, this is another situation where I think most of will respond differently because it's a school.

If the same thing happened at a mall or movie theater, the majority consensus on here seems to be, "Use your phone. Be a witness. Defend yourself and those you're responsible for." Maybe even, "Get ready to do some first aid and be ready if BG reemerges."

In the proposed hypothetical, I make eye contact with somebody and command them to "Call 9-1-1 and TELL THEM I'M GOING IN THERE TO STOP THAT GUY!"

Then I go in and pray for God's deliverance.

As soon as I see / hear police (unless I'm actively engaged), I drop my firearm, put my hands up, lie down, and get ready for the knee to the spine and the handcuffs. They'll sort out the details later. I might sit in a car or a holding cell for a few hours. That initial moment is not the time to explain things to them.

*Edit to add: if I see an able-bodied man and I have a spare gun, and I have the mental wherewithal, I make a one-sentence attempt to recruit him. If he's with me, he gets it. If not, I'll keep a BUG. Point and shoot guns are great.