Oklahoma State Trooper Pulls Us Over.. Im sleeping.

[jcharro]

I am in a Mariachi group in Dallas, Texas. We picked up a gig in Tulsa, Oklahoma on 6/16/2012. Coming back, I am on the very last bench in the back if our van. I am dead asleep, I did not realize we had got pulled over for going 50 on a 40 though a small town in Oklahoma. I was woken up by the guy next to me he tells me that the police want to speak to me. I was like "Police??" "what the heck" what did we do. So I'm carrying concealed and I have no idea how to approach the trooper. The trooper has made contact with the driver but not me. So I get out of the van with my hands in front of me and the trooper tells me to come over to them. I tell him Sir I am licensed to carry and am carrying. By then I had both my licenses’ in my hand. He tells me where in my firearm I tell him "my right hip", he lifts my shirt up and takes my .45 1911 and disarms me. He steps back and starts to get irritated with the driver. "I asked you where there any firearms in the vehicle and you said no" The driver was like in shock when he saw my gun. He tells the officer he didn’t know I was carrying. I politely tell the officer "sir I was dead asleep in the backseat if I was awake and had known you had asked, I would have replied and let you know." Trooper says "Again I am asking you "Driver" are there any more firearms in the vehicle?" If I find any more I am going to be very upset. The Driver and I both replied "No Sir, that it". He steps into his cruiser and runs our cards, I check out with flying colors, but the drivers' driver license is expired. He gets a ticket for an expired license and lets him slide for the speeding violation. Trooper hands my firearms to me unloaded and cocked back. "Do not load it till you have entered the vehicle and put your seat belt on. He tells me "next time you have to let the driver know you are carrying, driver you are supposed to know what is in your vehicle at all times. He could lose his CHL for something like this. Driver you will not be able to drive your friend here (me) will have to take over the wheel. Ok you gentlemen have a safe trip back to Dallas". We both got back in the van and made it back to Dallas safely. The Oklahoma trooper was in my opinion very lenient in the situation we were in. In Texas I think it would have been a different story. What do ya'll think?

[mr surveyor]

so, in Oklahoma does a passenger have an obligation to inform the driver of the vehicle that he/she is carrying a firearm?

[speedsix]

...a driver can be held accountable for criminal things...dope...open container...etc...but there was nothing criminal here...the officer got a bit rattled...

[clarionite]

In Texas the officer shouldn't have been upset about the Driver not knowing a CONCEALED weapon was in his car on a person with a CONCEALED handgun license.

[sugar land dave]

I agree with speedsix. The officer let his emotions enter into this encounter, but he ended up sending them on their way.

[RoyGBiv]

As a passenger, I have no obligation to disclose to the driver that I have a CHL and am carrying a weapon.
The driver cannot possibly be held in violation for not disclosing a gun he knew nothing about.

As a passenger (not the driver) in a car that is pulled over for speeding, I have no obligation IN TEXAS to volunteer to the officer that I am carrying a weapon unless I am asked for identification by the officer. Not sure if that's the same in OK.

This is my OPINION, not legal advice.

EDIT: Looks like OK law says you have to notify at "first contact".

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_La ... V_2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page 3 (actual page 6 of 34).
TITLE 21 § 1290.8 POSSESSION OF LICENSE REQUIRED-NOTIFICATION TO POLICE OF GUN, Section C

It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. (.............. truncated.........) Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed ninety (90) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. In addition to any criminal prosecution for a violation of the provisions of this subsection, the licensee shall be subject to a six-month suspension of the license and an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars ($50.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Bureau that the person is in violation of the provisions of this subsection.

[cbunt1]

I'm no expert on Oklahoma law, BUT...I never found anything in the statutes--or at least my check of them for the times I've gone to OK--that indicates my duty as a passenger to inform a driver.

In fact, I think the idea of a CHL holder having the duty to inform ANYONE besides law enforcement violates the concept of CONCEALED...and since most states that issue licenses specifically issue CONCEALED licenses, I would submit that CONCEALED is a significant element of the legal authorization to carry (Let's not get into right vs. privelege here, and discuss WHAT IS, not WHAT SHOULD BE).

Following that logic, if CONCEALED is a significant element of authorization, then a duty to notify "just anyone" violates the element of CONCEALED and becomes a self-incrimination issue, since CONCEALED is ususaly defined along the lines of "not discernable or detectable to the reasonable observer" [using editorial licenses here, since we're taling about multiple states].

OK...RANT OFF.

Sounds like the the trooper is out of line here...probably just a little spooked or caught off guard (giving the benefit of the doubt). Had the driver failed to disclose that he was carrying (he was not, and did not) then the trooper had nothing to get upset about. According to the OP, you advised as soon as you "came in contact" with the trooper, as required by OK law (OK *is* a "duty to notify" state) ergo, you did as required.

Technically speaking, passengers don't "come in contact" with LEO in a traffic stop until and unless they are directly addressed by the LEO. As I understand, there are stipulations on that from the LEO perspective [hoping some of our LEOs chime in here].

In Texas, it would (legally) be no big deal, and such behavior by theLEO would be out of line--unless there's more to the story (that you may not be privvy to, since you were asleep for at least the beginning of the stop). In Texas, you have NO duty to notify ANYONE (Except LEO in an "ID" context), and in keeping with the logic above, you may have a specific duty NOT to notify, since third party knowledge COULD be construed as outside the scope of "CONCEALED" in certain contexts (Yes, I know it's a stretch).

All in all, I'm sorry it happened to you, and I'm glad everyone went home.

And I'll use the standard disclaimer...I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express...in fact, I'm just another opinionated redneck! LOL

[RoyGBiv]

I'm no expert on Oklahoma law, BUT...I never found anything in the statutes--or at least my check of them for the times I've gone to OK--that indicates my duty as a passenger to inform a driver.

Per my edited post above, it seems to me that OK law requires the passenger to tell the officer at "first contact".

I can see why the officer was rattled.... In the end, sounds like the officer didn't let it affect the outcome.

Just my opinion, not legal advice.

[speedsix]

I'm no expert on Oklahoma law, BUT...I never found anything in the statutes--or at least my check of them for the times I've gone to OK--that indicates my duty as a passenger to inform a driver.

Per my edited post above, it seems to me that OK law requires the passenger to tell the officer at "first contact".

I can see why the officer was rattled.... In the end, sounds like the officer didn't let it affect the outcome.

Just my opinion, not legal advice.

...first contact was when the officer asked him to come over to him...had he stayed in the vehicle and not been addressed...the contact would have been with the driver, not him...the OP did it right...

[jcharro]

Thanks fellas for your input. I was just so relaxed and cooperating with all the officers’ commands. I was just laughing at my friends in the van all the way home. They were all sweating bullets thinking they were all going to jail for me carrying a concealed firearm. I totally agree with cbunt1 what is the use of having a CHL if I'm going to tell the world about it. As far as the group, I guess they all know they at least have someone in the band that cares about not being a crime victim. We get paid in cash, we come home with quite a bit of $ after a whole day of performances. You get the picture..

[recaffeination]

I'm no expert on Oklahoma law, BUT...I never found anything in the statutes--or at least my check of them for the times I've gone to OK--that indicates my duty as a passenger to inform a driver.

Per my edited post above, it seems to me that OK law requires the passenger to tell the officer at "first contact".

I can see why the officer was rattled.... In the end, sounds like the officer didn't let it affect the outcome..

It sounds like the OP did notify the Okie cop when they made first contact. Either way, the side of the road is not the ideal place to challenge a cop's knowledge of the law.

[Mike1951]

Someone in the van must have known you were carrying since the officer singled you out and you were asleep.

[speedsix]

Someone in the van must have known you were carrying since the officer singled you out and you were asleep.

...he needed a licensed driver...

[Mike1951]

Someone in the van must have known you were carrying since the officer singled you out and you were asleep.

...he needed a licensed driver...

Out of the entire Mariachi group, presumably a van full of musicians, the guy asleep in the far back seat is the only licensed driver?

I read it that the officer wanted him because someone else in the van informed about him carrying.

If that wasn't the case, why didn't they have all of the passengers disembark?

[speedsix]

...if you read that...where is it written? I don't read that either he was the only one asked to get out...or that someone told that he had a gun...but I do read that the officer asked him to drive for the other guy...the trooper said nothing about him being armed until he did what the law requires and notified him properly...