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Conclusion: Ellifritz writes, “The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn’t that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately…even the lowly .22s. I’ve stopped worrying about trying to find the ‘ultimate’ bullet. There isn’t one. And I’ve stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn’t have enough ‘stopping power.’ Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn’t all that important.”

Cliff-notes version on the CTD site:

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=2179 ... +1+Issue+1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Full version on the Buckey Firearms site:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He is making a valid point to some degree. I'd rather have someone with a 22 caliber pistol that can hit their target with every pull of the trigger then have someone with a 45 that can't find their target. But if you are proficient with a larger caliber why not carry it? Also a valid point is made on bullet selection. There is no magic bullet. However every bullet is designed to do different thing better then others. For example a 230 grain FMJ 45 bullet is better and penetration then a 200 JHP 45 bullet but they both are quit lethal. However if you are concerned about thing like over penetration then a JHP or fragmentable design is where it's at.

Have you ever wondered why .22 and 0.25 are the hitman caliber-of-choice?

I think the best point he makes is about "psychological stops". Once they are shot once with anything, they just don't want any more.

For myself, I'm OK with carrying a Glock 19, except I just can't unless I want to wear suspenders all the time. And I don't.
I carry what fits my pocket without pulling my pants down. Most of the time it's a .38 snubby or a Ruger LCP, but occasionally it's a NAA Black Widow.

A hitman has probably already got an advantage of some sort so they're typically not trying to "stop the threat". Plus, I'd rather use a real HD round if I've got the resources. I agree that anything is better than nothing but I'm not gonna make a case for small calibers being "good" choice.

Beiruty wrote:Have you ever wondered why .22 and 0.25 are the hitman caliber-of-choice?

No, but I am curious where you got the info that they use .22s and .25s.

Long ago I read a book by a former hit man who said he used .38 revolvers almost exclusively. They were common, didn't throw brass around to be picked up, and cheap enough to get rid of after a hit.

Outside of that autobiography that may well have been hokum, I've never seen a study discussing hitman and their preferred calibers.

Rex B wrote:I think the best point he makes is about "psychological stops". Once they are shot once with anything, they just don't want any more.

.....'cept for the guy high on Meth or some other substance that makes them superhuman!

But, I also agree that the difference between .45 and 9mm is a trade off.

.45 better stopping power but usually less rounds available.
9mm slightly less stopping power but usually more rounds available.

But.......it is not my intention to turn this into a .45/9mm discussion (we have many of those). I'm just trying to say that generally I agree with the original post and do in fact carry either a .45 or a 9mm (sometimes .357mag) and never feel unprepared.

74novaman wrote:

Beiruty wrote:Have you ever wondered why .22 and 0.25 are the hitman caliber-of-choice?

No, but I am curious where you got the info that they use .22s and .25s.

Long ago I read a book by a former hit man who said he used .38 revolvers almost exclusively. They were common, didn't throw brass around to be picked up, and cheap enough to get rid of after a hit.

Outside of that autobiography that may well have been hokum, I've never seen a study discussing hitman and their preferred calibers.

I'd imagine with "hitmen" that they would (generally) be up pretty close to their "target" and weren't too concerned about proper "stopping power" or missed shots or anything else, as long as they "got the job done". End result, non-living individual whether it took 2 seconds or 2 minutes for the person to expire.

74novaman wrote:

Beiruty wrote:Have you ever wondered why .22 and 0.25 are the hitman caliber-of-choice?

No, but I am curious where you got the info that they use .22s and .25s.

Long ago I read a book by a former hit man who said he used .38 revolvers almost exclusively. They were common, didn't throw brass around to be picked up, and cheap enough to get rid of after a hit.

Outside of that autobiography that may well have been hokum, I've never seen a study discussing hitman and their preferred calibers.

I wondered the same thing. Most of the hits, at least in the movies are at close range, with a one shot kill to the back of the head. In this scenario, a .22LR [with a silencer] makes sense in that the noise is low and the bullet will probably fragment so it can't be traced to the gun. Of course a .22 auto would leave casings which could be linked to the gun.

...I carried a High Standard .22 LR before I went into the Marines...confidently...put a brick through it every week and was very accurate with it...I've seen more men dead of a .22 short(from an RG10) than from a .357 Mag...being able to place the round where you want it is the key...however...a big old fat slow-moving bullet gives you something more effective in a "fringe area" hit...not to mention a caliber...

...as to believing that the psychological shock will solve the problem...seen too many drunk or high take a round or two from large caliber and keep on tickin'...don't count on it...even adrenaline will keep them coming after being shot badly enough to kill them...

speedsix wrote:...I carried a High Standard .22 LR before I went into the Marines...confidently...put a brick through it every week and was very accurate with it...I've seen more men dead of a .22 short(from an RG10) than from a .357 Mag...being able to place the round where you want it is the key...however...a big old fat slow-moving bullet gives you something more effective in a "fringe area" hit...not to mention a caliber...

I shoot my .22LR High Standard more than any other gun I own. With it, I can keep all of my shots in the 10 Ring all day long. I wish I could do the same with my CC guns.

AEA wrote:

Rex B wrote:I think the best point he makes is about "psychological stops". Once they are shot once with anything, they just don't want any more.

.....'cept for the guy high on Meth or some other substance that makes them superhuman!

But, I also agree that the difference between .45 and 9mm is a trade off.

.45 better stopping power but usually less rounds available.
9mm slightly less stopping power but usually more rounds available.

But.......it is not my intention to turn this into a .45/9mm discussion (we have many of those). I'm just trying to say that generally I agree with the original post and do in fact carry either a .45 or a 9mm (sometimes .357mag) and never feel unprepared.

THAT is the sort of thing that worries me. Though you do have cases such as the one where the LEO shot the rather large BG, who was sitting in a car, with a .357 Magnum when the criminal pulled a .25 Auto on the LEO. LEO died rapidly, BG a bit later, IIRC. Shot placement and entry angle and a thousand other things are VERY important. But there is still a law of diminishing returns at either end of the caliber spectrum; .22 ain't big enough on the drugged up ones, often times (I remember, as a kid, my LEO cousin in Houston telling stories of BGs on PCP) but a .44 Mag can be both harder to conceal AND tougher to shoot accurately for many people (me included). Pick a proven round in a firearm you are comfortable and capable of firing well, and have that firearm with you. Just because a .22 CAN stop a BG doesn't mean its the BEST thing to stop a BG, though.

...I've had four...3 4" and one 2 3/8"...all great guns...had a trigger job done on my first one...spent $35 and got a Swiss watch action back...if I can find another one, I'll have the trigger smoothed on it, too...they're gettin' hard to find...

Beiruty wrote:Have you ever wondered why .22 and 0.25 are the hitman caliber-of-choice?

I've read about two different angles on this, one in fiction books and the other in a "historical fiction".

The idea of the .22 was a head shot and the bullet richocheting around in there, making a mess and at the same time, keeping noise down. Aside from the noise thing, with a large caliber, you probably don't need to worry if you get richocheting so??

The historical fiction had suff on Mosad hunting down people involved in the Munich Olympics attack. The idea for the .22 there was that they could use it on an aircraft, without puncturing the skin of hte pressurized aircraft. They even talked about an intentionally reduced load .22.

Mossad's weapon of choice for many years was a Ruger Mark 1 with a can. They went for a shot to the temple, eye, or back of head. Those guys could make the best mob hit-man look like an amateur.

jerry_r60 wrote:The historical fiction had suff on Mosad hunting down people involved in the Munich Olympics attack. The idea for the .22 there was that they could use it on an aircraft, without puncturing the skin of hte pressurized aircraft. They even talked about an intentionally reduced load .22.

The only time an aircraft has been destroyed by a bullet fired through the skin or window from inside was in a James Bond movie - - - "Goldfinger" if my memory serves me. US Federal Air Marshals use 357 SIGs loaded with Gold Dots. They want to turn the bad guy off if it comes to a shooting situation.