TexasCHLforum.com

I am headed to college this fall and was wondering if I could keep a handgun in my vehicle under the mpa even though I'm under 21.
I was also wondering if there any kind of class that I could take to learn about the self defense laws more. (Possibly just take a chl class)

firstmosin wrote:I am headed to college this fall and was wondering if I could keep a handgun in my vehicle under the mpa even though I'm under 21.
I was also wondering if there any kind of class that I could take to learn about the self defense laws more. (Possibly just take a chl class)

I'm not a lawyer, but you only have to be 21 to buy a handgun, not possess a handgun (I don't believe the MPA has any age restrictions, but you should read it yourself just to make sure). MPA should cover it, but it is likely that you are breaking some student rules. If you do this, make sure NO ONE knows about it. You can't control who other people will tell or overhear things. Next thing you know, your car could be broken into and it could be stolen. Also, make sure you don't leave your car unlocked anywhere (especially at parties). Make sure you always have your keys.

I only kept a handgun in my car during my senior year after I bought it. I shortly then after took my CHL class. It was a lot of hassle, but at least at that point I lived in the apartments next door to the university where guns were only against the rules and not illegal. Though I almost got in trouble because someone heard me sliding the rack while I was cleaning it

Thanks
I was under the impression that I could keep it in my vehicle if I was in the parking lot no matter what as long as I don't take it into buildings.
My new student conference is in the summer so I can find these things out then (ask questions privately of course)
I plan to get some pepper spray either way.

firstmosin wrote:Thanks
I was under the impression that I could keep it in my vehicle if I was in the parking lot no matter what

With the MPA, yes.

firstmosin wrote:as long as I don't take it into buildings.

By that statement, I am assuming you are going to remove the gun from your vehicle while at the university. If you don't have a CHL, that would be illegal.

firstmosin wrote:My new student conference is in the summer so I can find these things out then (ask questions privately of course)

I would NOT ask anyone at the college any questions about guns. You don't know them, they might over-react, they might misunderstand, they might just hear the word "gun" and call the police over just because they're afraid of the word.

firstmosin wrote:I plan to get some pepper spray either way.

For your first semester, just leave the gun at home. You can get some pepper spray then. Don't bring your gun until you are comfortable with the environment.

Bookmark this page:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm

---------------------------------------

Of course don't let my opinions be the only ones to go by. While I think I am right , I could be wrong, and I definitely don't know everything. Check back tomorrow, I'm sure someone else will pipe up by then.

firstmosin wrote:I was also wondering if there any kind of class that I could take to learn about the self defense laws more. (Possibly just take a chl class)

A good CHL class is well worth the cost even if you are not getting a CHL. A large portion of the legal aspects that are covered apply to everyone regardless of CHL possession, and most people come in knowing those laws only from TV. The countless "I always thought..." comments confirm that.

The paperwork received from a CHL class (CHL-100) is good for two years. If you're 19 or older you can take the class at any time, then wait for your 21st birthday to start the application process.

I would sugest that if you decide to carry under the MPA you stay very aware of the company you keep in the car with you and avoid any and all alchohol consumption with yourself and any passengers. A mounted lock box in the trunk would be a good idea should you be in a situation where locking it up and out of the drivers compartment would be the responsible thing to do. We were all young once and I know that I did some pretty dumb things at your age. Sometimes dumb things just seemed to happen when you least expect them so being aware is your best friend and keeping the firearms away from others and not letting them know you have it just makes good sense. Best wishes at school and try to stay focused, it will pay dividends in the long run...........

This is not legal advice and it is only to the best of my knowledge:

As mentioned already, drinking and guns do not mix. Intoxication is in the opinion of the officer, not just a breath test. Ask yourself if you are prepared to make a hard and fast rule that excludes all alcohol for all parties in the car period.

Also, the MPA requires that your gun be in your car or a car under your direct care and control. It is my understanding you can't take it with you to ride in your buddy's car.

As mentioned, you also should be aware of the criminal history of anyone in the car. Should you have a felon or someone on probation in the car and the gun is accessible, that is a problem for that person and perhaps for you too. It is illegal to make a gun accessible to a felon. "Accessible" might come down to a DA's opinion. A lock box that only you have the knowledge of how to open is a very wise thing.

Secure the gun in a proper holster and restrained so that a car accident does not mean it can go flying all over the car to end up who knows where.

Illegal behavior done in/around the car can carry a heavier charge just because the gun is present and instantly makes the presence of the gun unlawful carry.
Do any of your buddies carry/use illegal drugs? Might they stash them in your car and deny ownership during a traffic stop? Getting into an altercation with someone is to be avoided.

There are federal laws prohibiting entry onto Federal property like Post Office parking lots or any land/water owned by the Texas Army Corps of Engineers. Don't even drive onto those properties with a gun in your car so you will need to check on who actually owns parks and lakes you want to go to.

Bottom line, you will need to behave with significant awareness and self control well beyond what is normal for the typical person your age and extend that to those who ride in the car with you. Losing sight of any of these things can put your ability to carry a gun ever again in the future at risk as well as cost you unreal sums of money for legal expenses. Worse, it can mean instead of you using the gun to defend yourself from a criminal, your gun ends up taking an innocent life. Obviously, you care about these things or you would not be asking questions here. I commend you for that wisdom.

I know this all sounds like a lot of confusion but it is important you don't just take someone's opinions (mine included), go to the laws and read them, go to reputable dependable sources for info, be sure you understand the laws not just for car carry, but the deadly force laws on when you can legally defend yourself. The idea is for the bad guy to go to jail, not you or your buddies. Hope some of this is clearer than mud

AND, if any board members feel I am in error on any of this, Please feel free to point it out.

I agree with most of your observations, TexasGal, but there are a couple of nuances I'd like to explore further.

TexasGal wrote:As mentioned already, drinking and guns do not mix. Intoxication is in the opinion of the officer, not just a breath test. Ask yourself if you are prepared to make a hard and fast rule that excludes all alcohol for all parties in the car period.

Depending on how the gun is stored in the car, the restriction "all parties in the car" seems like overkill. I agree 100% with the driver = zero alcohol. For everyone else in the car, it depends upon how the driver has secured the handgun. Reasonable accessibility is the issue. If I had a gun in my driver's side door pocket or in a holster attached to my seat between my legs, for two examples, it is hard to argue that the drunk in the back seat has any access. Conversely, if I've tossed the handgun in an unlocked glovebox and the drunk is in the passenger seat, well that horse is purple.

TexasGal wrote:As mentioned, you also should be aware of the criminal history of anyone in the car. Should you have a felon or someone on probation in the car and the gun is accessible, that is a problem . . .

I agree with the statement, so long as we all understand the caveat "and the gun is accessible". See above. Also, accessibility does not have to be restricted to "lockbox in the trunk". There are other reasonable ways that a handgun can be stored that are not considered "accessible".

Depends on your own "comfort level" in dealing with authorities. I have made it a point to ask questions of LEO's that I already know the answer to, to see if they are on the same page. I have asked this very question (can under 21 carry MPA) and all have said "no." Including asking it at instructor training. MPA says nothing about age, and the only thing I see pertaining to age is it is illegal to make a loaded weapon accessible to someone under 17 (which some counties define as being 18??). So legal, but doesn't mean you might not have an issue with LEO's on this. Now that being said, a lot of LEO's are not that well aquainted with MPA period.

Jumping Frog wrote:I agree with most of your observations, TexasGal, but there are a couple of nuances I'd like to explore further.

TexasGal wrote:As mentioned already, drinking and guns do not mix. Intoxication is in the opinion of the officer, not just a breath test. Ask yourself if you are prepared to make a hard and fast rule that excludes all alcohol for all parties in the car period.

Depending on how the gun is stored in the car, the restriction "all parties in the car" seems like overkill. I agree 100% with the driver = zero alcohol. For everyone else in the car, it depends upon how the driver has secured the handgun. Reasonable accessibility is the issue. If I had a gun in my driver's side door pocket or in a holster attached to my seat between my legs, for two examples, it is hard to argue that the drunk in the back seat has any access. Conversely, if I've tossed the handgun in an unlocked glovebox and the drunk is in the passenger seat, well that horse is purple.

TexasGal wrote:As mentioned, you also should be aware of the criminal history of anyone in the car. Should you have a felon or someone on probation in the car and the gun is accessible, that is a problem . . .

I agree with the statement, so long as we all understand the caveat "and the gun is accessible". See above. Also, accessibility does not have to be restricted to "lockbox in the trunk". There are other reasonable ways that a handgun can be stored that are not considered "accessible".

I see your points, Jumping Frog.
Where I got the info for the "accessible" part unfortunately came straight from the advice given by a rather pricey lawyer to a family member. Let's call him (the family member) Dummy. Dummy was on probation for a misdemeanor we will call "amazing stupidity". Part of the probation called for no access to guns in the home or anywhere else. This was explained in writing and verbally to Dummy as meaning they could not be present even if they were locked up. Even if they were unloaded. Even if there was no ammo in the house. He could not ride in a car where there was gun. Even if it was in the trunk. This does indeed sound unreasonable, but the lawyer was adamant that the particular DA involved would not budge on enforcing probation this way. That was in an anti-gun jurisdiction. I shudder to think what his approach is to actual felons being anywhere near a gun. Other areas probably would not see it that harshly, but finding out wouldn't be much fun for anybody. As for the alcohol, I was really basing that also on the likelihood the underage driver would likely have underage riders in the car whose drinking might tend to make the officer who stopped them find ways to discourage a repeat of those choices especially with a gun in the car. You are probably right that not allowing even a passenger to have had a drink would not be necessary if that passenger is an adult and is not in easy reach of the gun/or it is locked up, etc. Thanks for your comments. I like to know when my thinking is not making sense to anybody but me

TexasGal wrote:Dummy was on probation for a misdemeanor we will call "amazing stupidity". Part of the probation called for no access to guns in the home or anywhere else.

Well, I agree completely that people on probation are commonly barred from being around firearms. The key issue to distinguish here is the driver possessing the firearm under MPA would not be in any trouble with Dummy in the back seat. However, Dummy most certainly would be.