TexasCHLforum.com

Seems like Little Rock thugs have a new tactic: shoot first, then take what they want.

The only defense against that is situational awareness, because no one has the reaction time from concealed carry to beat someone who comes out shooting from the moment you see them.

(FWIW, Terry Hastings is a "cousin-in-law" of mine; his mother's brother married my mother's sister. He's still "Terry Lynn" to us. )

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0107/389595.html

Little Rock Man Shot by Masked Gunman
Friday January 19, 2007 6:37pm Reporter: Jessica Morkert Posted By: Scott Munsell

Little Rock -
Police are still looking for a suspect who shot a man during an attempted robbery in a prominent Little Rock neighborhood last night.

It happened in the 400-block of Midland, in the Hillcrest area of Little Rock.

Police say the victim, 69-year-old William Sherman, was just getting out of his car when he was approached by the suspect armed with a shotgun.

No words were exchanged between the suspect and the victim before two shots were fired.

One of those shots grazed the Sherman's chest. He is expected to be okay.

Little Rock Police say incidents like these are becoming more common.

(Terry Hastings, LRPD) "We're seeing more cases of aggravated robberies against individuals. We're not sure why that is the case, but we see a few more of those."

Hastings did offer some tips on how to get out of an aggravated robbery situation safely. He says above all, be aware of your surroundings--and if you notice anything suspicious, contact police by calling 9-1-1.

Mr. Sherman is lucky indeed.
Hope they catch this thug quickly.

Dan

Another case reported without enough information or detailed. 2 shots
fired from a shotgun and just grazed his chest?? One lucky man or God
watching over him one. I wonder if being aware of his surroundings would
have helped him any. Some times there just isn't anything you can do.
I don't remember reading, did this happen at night or in the day?

Tote 9 wrote:I don't remember reading, did this happen at night or in the day?

It said "last night", but wasn't specific about time.

If this is a trend, I guess we're all going to have to start wearing vests now.

-- John D.

Hastings did offer some tips on how to get out of an aggravated robbery situation safely. He says above all, be aware of your surroundings--and if you notice anything suspicious, contact police by calling 9-1-1.

While I don't disagree with Hastings advice, I'm not sure how seeing a robber with a shotgun comming at you and dialing 9-1-1 is going to be a big help in that particular situation.

A carry gun is much better. And a vest wouldn't have hurt either.

Richard Davis invented kevlar vests for just such occasions as this one:

"The concept for Second Chance® soft concealable body armor was conceived in a dark alley on Detroit’s far west side on a summer night over a quarter century ago. Richard Davis, owner of a small local pizzeria, was making a delivery when he was attacked and shot. Davis returned fire wounding two of his three attackers. Weeks later while recovering from his wounds, Davis' business was burned to the ground.

The ‘69 shooting incident inspired Davis to research and develop a means of personal ballistic protection. The result was a soft, flexible, concealable panel of ballistic nylon material layered to stop common street handgun firepower. The ballistic material, first generation in the body armor industry, was similar to that found in flak jackets worn in Korea and Vietnam. By taking the bullet resistant panel, large enough to protect the wearer’s vital organ area both front and back, and placing it under an outer garment hidden from a possible assailant, the wearer was given a "second chance" to survive a ballistic attack and retaliate.

...

During the ‘70’s, Davis experimented with many kinds of ballistic material, finding DuPont Kevlar® to be the best. "

http://www.secondchance.com/information/history.htm

just to play devil's advocate...I wonder if this is possibly an unintended consequence of concealed carry...they don't know who is armed and can fight back, so they shoot first.

AG-EE wrote:...I wonder if this is possibly an unintended consequence of concealed carry...they don't know who is armed and can fight back, so they shoot first.

This kind of thing is rare. I think it's more likely the thug in this case overdosed on hip-hop videos and may also have been nervous and maybe on drugs.

Criminals are stupid, but most of them have a few functioning brain cells. They know that they might get a plea bargain for robbery if no one gets hurt, but shooting someone in the course of a robbery is treated much more harshly.

- Jim

I was thinking along the lines of if we had open carry, they "might" definitely shoot first since they could see you were armed and shoot for more than just to wound. Also, it seems the average honest, moral citizen tends to hold life in higher regard than most criminals do these days. Or, at least, I pray we do.

rodnocker1 wrote:I was thinking along the lines of if we had open carry, they "might" definitely shoot first since they could see you were armed ...

It would depend upon the criminal's reason for attacking.

If it was simply to get money, he would probably pass on armed people and go after more vulnerable-looking targets. Shooting someone makes noise and draws attention.

If he was out to get a specific person, for revenge or something, he would shoot first and probably from cover or behind.

- Jim

"Police say the victim, 69-year-old William Sherman, was just getting out of his car when he was approached by the suspect armed with a shotgun.

No words were exchanged between the suspect and the victim before two shots were fired."

It appears as if this guy might have a fighting chance. He saw the crook approaching with a shotgun and enough time passed that it was noticable that they did not exchange greetings of any sort. If it is at night, on my property, and someone I do not know approaches with a long weapon in any other position than slung/holstered, then I must assume no good will come of this meeting in my driveway.

John R. Fuller wrote:"Police say the victim, 69-year-old William Sherman, was just getting out of his car when he was approached by the suspect armed with a shotgun.

No words were exchanged between the suspect and the victim before two shots were fired."

It appears as if this guy might have a fighting chance. He saw the crook approaching with a shotgun and enough time passed that it was noticable that they did not exchange greetings of any sort. If it is at night, on my property, and someone I do not know approaches with a long weapon in any other position than slung/holstered, then I must assume no good will come of this meeting in my driveway.

Yes, Mr Sherman may have had a fighting chance, but even if it existed, it would have been a slim one.

Ask yourself how fast you can draw and acquire a target at night. Remember, it’s cold, so you probably have a jacket on and maybe gloves. Your getting out of your car and don’t expect to see anyone, especially someone with a shotgun. Depending on the available light, you may not even spot the shotgun. After all, just a few seconds ago you were driving and looking at headlights…your night vision is not exactly peaked, and remember, he’s 69, night vision is something he remembers having a couple of decades ago. The BG is certainly putting the monkey wrench in your/Mr Sherman's smooth running OODA loops . I suspect the odds were heavily in the favor of the BG. Even taking the age of the victim out of the equation, I still think the BG’s going to score first hit.

It’s just a bad situation. Even if you operate in condition yellow 24/7, there are still situations where you will lose, and this may have been one of them.

The good news is the BG was a dork. Close range, two blasts with the shotty, and only one marginal hit. Maybe he learned to shoot by watching movies, or playing video games. Thank God the average BG doesn’t take the time out to train in their profession.

TX Rancher wrote:

John R. Fuller wrote:"Police say the victim, 69-year-old William Sherman, was just getting out of his car when he was approached by the suspect armed with a shotgun.

No words were exchanged between the suspect and the victim before two shots were fired."

It appears as if this guy might have a fighting chance. He saw the crook approaching with a shotgun and enough time passed that it was noticable that they did not exchange greetings of any sort. If it is at night, on my property, and someone I do not know approaches with a long weapon in any other position than slung/holstered, then I must assume no good will come of this meeting in my driveway.

Yes, Mr Sherman may have had a fighting chance, but even if it existed, it would have been a slim one.

Ask yourself how fast you can draw and acquire a target at night. Remember, it’s cold, so you probably have a jacket on and maybe gloves. Your getting out of your car and don’t expect to see anyone, especially someone with a shotgun. Depending on the available light, you may not even spot the shotgun. After all, just a few seconds ago you were driving and looking at headlights…your night vision is not exactly peaked, and remember, he’s 69, night vision is something he remembers having a couple of decades ago. The BG is certainly putting the monkey wrench in your/Mr Sherman's smooth running OODA loops . I suspect the odds were heavily in the favor of the BG. Even taking the age of the victim out of the equation, I still think the BG’s going to score first hit.

It’s just a bad situation. Even if you operate in condition yellow 24/7, there are still situations where you will lose, and this may have been one of them.

The good news is the BG was a dork. Close range, two blasts with the shotty, and only one marginal hit. Maybe he learned to shoot by watching movies, or playing video games. Thank God the average BG doesn’t take the time out to train in their profession.

+1

Could not have said it better!

TX Rancher wrote:

John R. Fuller wrote:"Police say the victim, 69-year-old William Sherman, was just getting out of his car when he was approached by the suspect armed with a shotgun.

No words were exchanged between the suspect and the victim before two shots were fired."

It appears as if this guy might have a fighting chance. He saw the crook approaching with a shotgun and enough time passed that it was noticable that they did not exchange greetings of any sort. If it is at night, on my property, and someone I do not know approaches with a long weapon in any other position than slung/holstered, then I must assume no good will come of this meeting in my driveway.

Yes, Mr Sherman may have had a fighting chance, but even if it existed, it would have been a slim one.

Ask yourself how fast you can draw and acquire a target at night. Remember, it’s cold, so you probably have a jacket on and maybe gloves. Your getting out of your car and don’t expect to see anyone, especially someone with a shotgun. Depending on the available light, you may not even spot the shotgun. After all, just a few seconds ago you were driving and looking at headlights…your night vision is not exactly peaked, and remember, he’s 69, night vision is something he remembers having a couple of decades ago. The BG is certainly putting the monkey wrench in your/Mr Sherman's smooth running OODA loops . I suspect the odds were heavily in the favor of the BG. Even taking the age of the victim out of the equation, I still think the BG’s going to score first hit.

It’s just a bad situation. Even if you operate in condition yellow 24/7, there are still situations where you will lose, and this may have been one of them.

The good news is the BG was a dork. Close range, two blasts with the shotty, and only one marginal hit. Maybe he learned to shoot by watching movies, or playing video games. Thank God the average BG doesn’t take the time out to train in their profession.

and I hope Mr. Sherman knelt and gave a Prayer of Thank's at the first opportunity because from what we read he should have been dead.
There are a lot of folks who think their shotgun pattern will cover the whole door across the room and that there is no need to aim, or that they can ''shoot from the hip '' I do concede that some shooters can and will be very accurate but most will think close is good enough with the shotgun.
I suggest that those that use a defensive shotgun should pattern it at 10', 15' and 20'.

AG-EE wrote:just to play devil's advocate...I wonder if this is possibly an unintended consequence of concealed carry...they don't know who is armed and can fight back, so they shoot first.

As noted, the crime itself is a rare one. But it's also worth noting that similar patterns have been seen in years past. I can remember hearing of crimes like this happening to cab drivers in Houston years before CHL.

As KBCraig pointed out, this would be a difficult attack to defend against. Situational awareness is certainly a key in potentially preventing the attack. But you aren't always going to see it coming. No one is perfect.

So when, not if, when you get surprised, fight through. Don't stand there in disbelief, do something. For starters, get off the 'X' by moving and moving as quickly as possible. Have the mind set that you will fight and you will win. It's certainly possible someone will prove your wrong but if you believe that all is lost, then all is most certainly lost.

We've got regular a customer at Top Gun who was ambushed in similar fashion to the man in the article. His only warning was hearing his attacker say something to him. When our customer turned around, all he saw was a muzzle flash as he was shot in the face. But, before this man of over seventy-years hit the ground, he drew and fired his own pistol. The fact that he was fighting back changed the whole game for the gangbangers attacking him. He didn't survive unscathed but he still won because he didn't curl into a ball and wait to die.