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AISD signs
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:21 pm
by jamullinstx
There was a long thread back in 2007 about AISD posting their school premises at the parking lot entrances with a sign specifying that all weapons were prohibited, regardless if the individual held a valid CHL. This morning I noticed that they've added compliant 30.06 signs, as well. The consensus is that these signs have no bearing on valid CHL holders, but does anyone know if there have been any test cases? Also, have there been any attempts to get AISD to remove the signs?
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:25 pm
by speedsix
...which AISD, please...this IS Texas, after all...
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:34 pm
by RPB
Aldine Indep School Dist?
Alief ISD?
etc ..
http://www.google.com/search?q=AISD&ie= ... =firefox-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or ...
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Austin County
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:52 pm
by jamullinstx
Austin Independent School District
The location where I saw the signs was at Anderson High School, but I believe they are all over the district.
A 30.06 would be valid for the building (even though not technically needed), but per the statutes not valid for the parking lot or grounds when no school sponsored activity is occurring. Plano ISD has them also at the entrances to their parking lots. I have tried to get the Collin county DA to confirm that the signs are unenforceable, but they will not commit. It will basically take a test case or AG opinion to show them these are invalid.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:22 am
by AEA
It should not take a test case. This is what really makes me mad about the legal systems.
What it should take is a letter from the AG TELLING them to cease and desist. He should be doing this as part of his job instead of someone having to bring it to his attention.
Why don't local Police enforce blatant disregard for 2A rights as well? Why are they not forcing businesses to remove their gun buster signs? Why are they not forcing gun shows to remove their invalid 30.06 signs?
Why do we pay these people?
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:34 am
by jamullinstx
Because it's not illegal to post the signs, they are just unenforceable. The legislature didn't make it illegal to improperly post property with 30.06 signs.
Now, if APD started to actually try to enforce the unenforceable signs, then the AG might be able to issue an opinion on the matter.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:50 am
by puma guy
jamullinstx wrote:Austin Independent School District
The location where I saw the signs was at Anderson High School, but I believe they are all over the district.
A 30.06 would be valid for the building (even though not technically needed), but per the statutes not valid for the parking lot or grounds when no school sponsored activity is occurring.
Besides being invalid a 30.06 sign on a school is moot. 30.06 prevents posting building owned or leased by the government being posted. Maybe CHL'ers' should use occupy tactics to protest.
Unfortunately most gun enthusiasts and CHL'ers I know have more class than that!
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:08 pm
by sjfcontrol
puma guy wrote:jamullinstx wrote:Austin Independent School District
The location where I saw the signs was at Anderson High School, but I believe they are all over the district.
A 30.06 would be valid for the building (even though not technically needed), but per the statutes not valid for the parking lot or grounds when no school sponsored activity is occurring.
Besides being invalid a 30.06 sign on a school is moot. 30.06 prevents posting building owned or leased by the government being posted. Maybe CHL'ers' should use occupy tactics to protest.
Unfortunately most gun enthusiasts and CHL'ers I know have more class than that!
Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:48 pm
by Keith B
Well, this was supposed to be my rply, but I accidentally stuck it in the post from jamullinstx instead of in a new on.
A 30.06 would be valid for the building (even though not technically needed), but per the statutes not valid for the parking lot or grounds when no school sponsored activity is occurring. Plano ISD has them also at the entrances to their parking lots. I have tried to get the Collin county DA to confirm that the signs are unenforceable, but they will not commit. It will basically take a test case or AG opinion to show them these are invalid.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:51 pm
by Keith B
sjfcontrol wrote:
Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.
Where did you hear this? I have not heard them calim anything other than they feel they are valid.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:06 pm
by sjfcontrol
Keith B wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:
Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.
Where did you hear this? I have not heard them calim anything other than they feel they are valid.
I think it came from here...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45865&hilit=plano+s ... ct#p558638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I didn't check all the posts in that thread, however the quote was "semi-government", and appears to be (roughly) 3rd hand -- somebody repeating what somebody else heard a third party say.
Perhaps not the best source, but typical of administrative thinking, don't you think?
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:16 pm
by Keith B
sjfcontrol wrote:Keith B wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:
Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.
Where did you hear this? I have not heard them claim anything other than they feel they are valid.
I think it came from here...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45865&hilit=plano+s ... ct#p558638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I didn't check all the posts in that thread, however the quote was "semi-government", and appears to be (roughly) 3rd hand -- somebody repeating what somebody else heard a third party say.
Perhaps not the best source, but typical of administrative thinking, don't you think?
Yeah, knowing PISD like I do, I do not doubt that would be their attempted 'spin' on things. They are notorious for twisting anything they can to put it in their favor; right, wrong or indifferent. They think they are their own little kingdom, but they are not. I will keep on carrying right past the signs if I need to and will follow all state rules.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:44 pm
by jmra
sjfcontrol wrote:Keith B wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:
Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.
Where did you hear this? I have not heard them calim anything other than they feel they are valid.
I think it came from here...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45865&hilit=plano+s ... ct#p558638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I didn't check all the posts in that thread, however the quote was "semi-government", and appears to be (roughly) 3rd hand -- somebody repeating what somebody else heard a third party say.
Perhaps not the best source, but typical of administrative thinking, don't you think?
I wonder what would happen to a resident of Plano if he "Semi" paid his assessed school tax.
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:19 pm
by puma guy
sjfcontrol wrote:puma guy wrote:jamullinstx wrote:Austin Independent School District
The location where I saw the signs was at Anderson High School, but I believe they are all over the district.
A 30.06 would be valid for the building (even though not technically needed), but per the statutes not valid for the parking lot or grounds when no school sponsored activity is occurring.
Besides being invalid a 30.06 sign on a school is moot. 30.06 prevents posting building owned or leased by the government being posted. Maybe CHL'ers' should use occupy tactics to protest.
Unfortunately most gun enthusiasts and CHL'ers I know have more class than that!
Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.
Oh so they're being taxing residents by pseudo-governmental agency authority
?
Re: AISD signs
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:26 pm
by Keith B
Per the US Government Census Bureau:
1.1 Types of Government Entities
The Census Bureau identified 87,525 governments during the 2002 Census of Governments. In addition to the Federal Government and the 50 state governments, the Census Bureau recognizes five basic types of local governments. County Governments (3,034). Organized county governments are found throughout the nation, except in Connecticut, Rhode Island, the District of Columbia, and limited portions of other states where county areas lack a distinct county government. They are created to provide general government activities in specified geographic areas. In Census Bureau statistics, counties include those entities called boroughs in Alaska and parishes in Louisiana.
Municipal Governments (19,429). Municipalities are sub-county general purpose governments established to provide general services for a specific population concentration in a defined area. Municipal governments include cities, boroughs (except in Alaska), villages, and towns (except in the six New England states, Minnesota, New York, and Wisconsin). Consolidated city-county governments are treated as municipal governments for Census Bureau statistics.
Township Governments (16,504). Townships are sub-county general purpose governments established to provide general services for areas without regard to population concentrations. They include towns in the six New England states, Minnesota, New York, and Wisconsin, and townships in eleven other states.
Special District Governments (35,052). These are established to provide only one or a limited number of designated services (functions) and have sufficient administrative and fiscal autonomy to qualify as independent governments.
School District Governments (13,506). These are created to provide public elementary, secondary and/or higher education services and have sufficient administrative and fiscal autonomy to qualify as independent governments. They exclude school systems that are “dependent” on a county, municipal, township, or state government.
County, municipal, and township governments are referred to as “general purpose” local governments in Census Bureau statistics on governments. Special district and school district governments are referred to as special purpose governments.
So, ISD's they are an 'Independent Government, and since they take tax dollars, it makes them a 'Governmental Entity' in their own right.
Per TPC 30.06:
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
As we all know, premises is defined as 'building or portion of a building' and does not include sidewalk, parking lot, etc, so a 30.06 would be valid if posted for the building, but not the parking lot as that fits the exception in 30.06 since it is NOT a premise.