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Hello, We have been having a bunch of heated debates at work about an incident that recently occurred. What happened: An employee had his firearm in his back pack at work, another employee comes up and says he is interested in purchasing the same model that he carries and asks if he can check it out. Sure the guy says, he takes out the semi auto weapon, clears the chamber and proceeds to drop the hammer (dry fire) before handing it to the other guy that wants to check it out, a small group has also gathered to check it out. Mistake made, he left the clip in when he cleared the chamber and reloaded the chamber pulled the trigger to dry fire it and BAM there goes a 40 zipping down the barrel, luckily not hitting anyone.

Debate is not just about company policy and so on but is about as a CHL holder are there any laws that were broken. Several other CHL holders are stating that this incident should be reported and he should loose his license, what do you guys think?

Of course their are a hundreds other concerns with this happening, legal, HR dept, company policies and so on.

P.S. This is in Texas

PLEASE say this was hypothetical!

JMPHO - Definitely NOT a lawyer, but here is what comes to my feeble mind.

1. Intentional failure to conceal. If the property was not under his control/his property.

2. If property is within city limits...there's that

3. Just plain stupid - invite the co-worker out to the range to try it out!

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES

§ 42.12. DISCHARGE OF FIREARM IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another section of this code, the person may be prosecuted under either section.
(d) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority of a municipality to enact an ordinance which prohibits the discharge of a firearm.

Let's get something out of the way first. The gun owner and the gun shooter were both negligent.

Now, turning to the question of legality, I don't know any law the gun owner broke, except probably failure to conceal (assuming there was no 30.06 notice, the business is not a 46.03/46.035 prohibited place, the shooter was an adult and not a felon, yadda-yadda.)

The criminal culpability for firing the shot (potentially 22.05 (deadly conduct), discharge within city limits, etc.) falls on the person who pressed the trigger. They may also be guilty of failure to conceal (if CHL) or UCW (if not) unless the business is their premises or premises under their control.

OK, to answer the OP question. This answer is not based on legalities, just gut feelings. I would like to see his CHL yanked. He should never have pulled the weapon out, period. The fact that he failed to drop the mag before racking the slide shows he is carrying a weapon he is not sufficiently proficient with. I think this was just a dude who wanted to show off a little bit, and it almost got someone killed.

On the other hand, as a nurse for 25 years, and a nurse practitioner for five, I have always said that a mistake that did not kill someone is the best kind of mistake to make...you can learn from it without sacrificing your career ( although an appalling number of nurses fail to realize or take ownership of their mistakes).

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

RJ

To make it clear, the gun owner cleared the weapon and fired the weapon, he thought he had cleared it but left the clip in. He never handed it to anyone in the crowd of people standing around.

Divided Attention wrote:PLEASE say this was hypothetical!

JMPHO - Definitely NOT a lawyer, but here is what comes to my feeble mind.

1. Intentional failure to conceal. If the property was not under his control/his property.

2. If property is within city limits...there's that

3. Just plain stupid - invite the co-worker out to the range to try it out!

Response to #1 that's what I think, it's called a "concealed" license

Response to #2 Yep in the city

Response to #3 exactly what my CHL carrying wife said.

Stupid seems to be covered.

Did anyone mention immature and/or irresponsible? How about negligent?

johnson0317 wrote:OK, to answer the OP question. This answer is not based on legalities, just gut feelings. I would like to see his CHL yanked. He should never have pulled the weapon out, period.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
RJ

Or at least a suspension with a mandatory firearms safety class.

grumbler wrote:To make it clear, the gun owner cleared the weapon and fired the weapon, he thought he had cleared it but left the clip in. He never handed it to anyone in the crowd of people standing around.

The gun owner reloaded the weapon and fired the weapon...Thank the Good Lord above there were no injuries or worse...

Oldgringo wrote:Stupid seems to be covered.

Did anyone mention immature and/or irresponsible? How about negligent?

1. Stupidly immature
2. Stupidly irresponsible
3. Stupidly negligent

K, think that about covers it!

If nothing is reported, that is good for the shooter. It is negligent discharge for sure. Did the shooter lose his job? Or is he the business owner?
If he is the business owner. maybe no law is broken.

I was in bit of similar situation. Last Saturday, I was at my friend's house for BBQ. I disarmed and stored my unloaded carry pistol in one of the bedroom's cabinet. We are going to swim and play basketball from the pool so I had to disarm and my friend did not mind.

Before I left, I was asked about guns and had to present my "piece" for show and tell. Did I break any laws, technically maybe, but who is going to call 911 and report a man with a gun? May I claim I was engaged in "sporting" activity when showing my gun?

I don't know, I get a different feeling with your scenario since you were not literally concealing the weapon. I know that is splitting hairs a little too fine, but when your hair is thinning...

Also, you were in a private residence.

Oh, what the heck, turn yourself in and get it over with...miscreant.

grumbler wrote:Response to #3 exactly what my CHL carrying wife said.

Your wife is a wise woman! I like her!

grumbler wrote:To make it clear, the gun owner cleared the weapon and fired the weapon, he thought he had cleared it but left the clip in. He never handed it to anyone in the crowd of people standing around.

The weapon was NOT cleared. It would have been cleared had the order of steps been: first remove magazine, then point pistol in "safe" direction and rack slide to remove chambered round, next lock chamber open, and perform a visual inspection of said chamber to ensure that it is indeed empty. The live round AND the magazine should have then been place where they would NOT have been handled while the weapon was being looked at/admired/badmouthed, etc. (If I missed something, I'm sure those who are more qualified than me will correct my sequence.) I also do not believe the weapon should have been removed at the place of work because "concealed means concealed" AND there were multiple individuals around, setting up a potential for various problems. Like was said earlier, a trip to the range or some such activity should have been planned. My two cents worth, I am not a gunsmith, LEO, combat arms qualified, etc. Also, IANAL.

To be very clear


Accidental" refers to a failure of the weapon mechanically, or something truly accidental, outside the resonable control of the operator. For example, dropping a gun and it goes off. Or, a safety malfunction, or a worn out sear, or a foreign object trips the trigger.

"Negligent" is where the operator squeezes the trigger on a firearm and it discharges when they didn't mean to fire a shot. Excuses are "I thought it was empty" or 'I didn't realize my finger was on the trigger" as so forth.

Negligent discharges vs Accidental-discharges

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/06/01/neg ... ischarges/

--And ALWAYS Look in the chamber, and down the clip housing

BAT