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I have been a member of the same church since the late 70's and am very happy there, but there is a member who is trying to organize a "LE only" security team. His intention is to prohibit CHL holders from carrying on church property, and unfortunately, he has at least some support from our pastor who was at Wedgewood in Ft Worth when the shooting occurred there. The problem with this plan is that, of the 5 or 6 LEO's in our church, none are regular attenders, and there are some times that there are NONE there (including the organizer).

I serve in several capacities and, as I said before, am very happy at this church, but I won't stay there if I can't carry. This may sound like a silly reason to change churches, but for me, this is an infringement that I am not willing to put up with.

Thoughts?

I would pray for guidance.

If you are led to stay, I would then prayerfully and respectfully ask for a private meeting with the pastor about "a difficulty" you've been facing. I wouldn't say what for so he doesn't make up his mind before speaking with you. Then I'd politely lay out what you know and why this is a problem for you. Then I'd make a decision on how to move forward.

This may sound like a silly reason to change churches, but for me, this is an infringement that I am not willing to put up with.

Thoughts?

IMO, the big man upstairs speaks to us all in ways that we sometimes can, or can't understand. Just as a 30.06 sign is His way of telling ME that I need to frequent another place of business, this may be His way of telling YOU to find a new church.



Do what you think is best.

Hoi Polloi wrote:I would pray for guidance.

If you are led to stay, I would then prayerfully and respectfully ask for a private meeting with the pastor about "a difficulty" you've been facing. I wouldn't say what for so he doesn't make up his mind before speaking with you. Then I'd politely lay out what you know and why this is a problem for you. Then I'd make a decision on how to move forward.

Good call. Some talking points to consider:

Who owns the church?

What did the owner say about carrying weapons? Luke 22:35-36

Why would the owner say such things to his disciples?

Then the practical considerations and the law. IMO if you can't get past number one and two then you should prayerfully consider the attitude of your shepherd(s), what their authority is and whether you need to stay.

retrieverman wrote:His intention is to prohibit CHL holders from carrying on church property, and unfortunately, he has at least some support from our pastor who was at Wedgewood in Ft Worth when the shooting occurred there. The problem with this plan is that, of the 5 or 6 LEO's in our church, none are regular attenders, and there are some times that there are NONE there (including the organizer).

An old quote says (and I'm paraphrasing) that gun control is not about guns--it's about control. I think that's what we may be seeing here based on what you've written. It sounds as if a small group of people in the congregation wish to strip the rights of others to exalt their own position; not right.
I think you should take Hoi Polloi's advice on seeing the pastor about it, then deciding where to proceed from there.

Hoi Polloi wrote: If you are led to stay, I would then prayerfully and respectfully ask for a private meeting with the pastor about "a difficulty" you've been facing. I wouldn't say what for so he doesn't make up his mind before speaking with you. Then I'd politely lay out what you know and why this is a problem for you. Then I'd make a decision on how to move forward.

Ironically, my pastor texted me on Thursday wanting me to take him hog hunting, and he will definitely listen to my concerns. No offense to anyone on this board, but he is a yankee from New Jersey (and I do call him this to his face), and he doesn't always understand the "ways" of country folks.

I understand the preacher's concern for our congregation, but the man heading up the "security team" is overstepping his bounderies on this issue.

I won't say that could "never" happen in my church ... but it's unlikely in any of mine in Texas

When churches vote in a Pastor, and vote out a Pastor ... and sometimes churches split into two churches over minor things ... they should remember:

Matthew, 12:25: And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

My dad attended the "Peace meeting" in 1953 which RE-united churches which had been split for many many years ... it's harder to repair broken things .... sometimes it's worth the forethought to consider whether it's worth risking/ taking chances on things/policies/church rules/discipline where Scripture is silent.
http://www.banneroflove.net/articles/Ri ... 953-03.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess my point is (especially if you get the "gist" of that link) is that ... is it really worth losing any of the flock over an issue where Scripture does not say to put up a 30.06 sign? Pastor, are you wanting to offend one of the children, and do you think you can justify the cause of the offense/loss?

If scripture is silent on an area of discipline/rules ....

If your pastor has already experienced a church shooting and is still entertaining the idea of 30.06 posting then IMHO he doesn't have a clue and is a lost cause. I could never attend a church or be pastored by some one who wanted to put a bulls eye on my family's back.

retrieverman wrote:I have been a member of the same church since the late 70's and am very happy there, but there is a member who is trying to organize a "LE only" security team. His intention is to prohibit CHL holders from carrying on church property, and unfortunately, he has at least some support from our pastor who was at Wedgewood in Ft Worth when the shooting occurred there. The problem with this plan is that, of the 5 or 6 LEO's in our church, none are regular attenders, and there are some times that there are NONE there (including the organizer).

I serve in several capacities and, as I said before, am very happy at this church, but I won't stay there if I can't carry. This may sound like a silly reason to change churches, but for me, this is an infringement that I am not willing to put up with.

Thoughts?

Sounds like some egotistical cops on a power trip who think they should be the only ones to carry firearms.
Come to Gateway. We will welcome you.

Mr.ViperBoa wrote: Sounds like some egotistical cops on a power trip who think they should be the only ones to carry firearms.
Come to Gateway. We will welcome you.

My parents and several of my friends have been to Gateway and love ya'lls church. Thanks for the invite!

Your assessment of the situation is on the money, and I guess what really burn my tail is that I, more than likely, spend more time shooting and training than any LEO or "agency" in my area. All the DPS guys in my area are pretty good guys, but the local LEO are, for the most part, "bubbas".

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:

This may sound like a silly reason to change churches, but for me, this is an infringement that I am not willing to put up with.

Thoughts?

IMO, the big man upstairs speaks to us all in ways that we sometimes can, or can't understand. Just as a 30.06 sign is His way of telling ME that I need to frequent another place of business, this may be His way of telling YOU to find a new church.



Do what you think is best.

Great response!

retrieverman wrote:I have been a member of the same church since the late 70's and am very happy there, but there is a member who is trying to organize a "LE only" security team. His intention is to prohibit CHL holders from carrying on church property,

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

You might search this forum ... there are prior posts on "Security Teams" in churches .... they might need additional insurance for an "organized church authorized 'Security' force"... among other "problems" ... are they prepared to describe the church specific training for active shooters classes they attended to a jury/insurer... etc?

It's like in Virginia where Constitutional carry is legal basically "everywhere" .... but then a school makes a "policy" for which it had to pay multi-millions in damages/fines etc ... and ongoing.

Churches making "policy" on things regulated by the State, could subject them to liability, just like Virginia Tech has had to pay and pay .... but churches don't enjoy sovereign immunity at all ... I'm not sure how Federal Bankruptcy laws apply to churches .... if these guys are "Agents" of/acting on behalf of ... the church. I wouldn't want my church taking on that added potential liability to provide proper training, insurance .... and be responsible for their actions ... where now if they carry on their own, the church isn't responsible for those guys' independent actions legally. Why put the church in a position where it has to indemnify everyone against liability for the "security team's" actions?

Oh ... Church failed to warn ... obviously they knew risks .... they failed to protect ... LEO only brought a 6-shooter and ran out of bullets .... sat in the wrong place ... undermanned security force .... missed and hit innocents ... .... Security force was snoring (hey, it happens in some churches)

That said, I have known some churches to hire parking lot security ... from a licensed, bonded, insured Security company.... to stay outside and watch cars.... However ... The CHL congregation, Deacons/Pastors inside are armed too ...

Perhaps the LEOs just want to stand outside and provide their own indemnification/insurance? Sounds like they just want the church to pay their bills/indemnify them....if so, I'd require training, every month at least.. Still that isn't mutually exclusive to CHLs .... if they want a Security Team to watch cars ... in addition to others exercising their rights to protect themselves and their families ...

jmra wrote:If your pastor has already experienced a church shooting and is still entertaining the idea of 30.06 posting then IMHO he doesn't have a clue and is a lost cause. I could never attend a church or be pastored by some one who wanted to put a bulls eye on my family's back.

Amen, brother! He certainly would not understand what Jesus said about protecting oneself or others. See below.