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"printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:48 pm
by kurt68
Is it legal that someone sees the outline or print of your concealed handgun as long as it is concealed? I can't get a straight answer.
Thanks, Kurt
ps. I searched but couldn't find the answer already with the search feature.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:53 pm
by boba
They're not breaking any law I know of.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:56 pm
by RottenApple
boba wrote:They're not breaking any law I know of.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:03 pm
by RPB
RottenApple wrote:boba wrote:They're not breaking any law I know of.
Welcome to the forum ... you'll learn to put up with our sense of humor
Below is an excerpt from a lengthy prior post
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&p=342864&hili ... s+#p342864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Q: What does "concealed" mean?
I agree with the statement, obvious to those of us who know the definition, "CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED!"
But, for further clarification, to anyone ELSE reading this and asking later
1) According to the actual legal definition:
Texas Government Code - Section 411.171. Definitions
(3) "Concealed Handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.
Note "openly discernible " "ordinary observation of a reasonable person" rather than "someone who knows you are a CHL and looking for a bump in your shirt"
2) According to the Texas Department of Public Safety, “‘Concealed’ means that the weapon cannot be visible, and that its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation. It is a criminal offense for a license holder to carry a handgun in plain view, or to intentionally fail to conceal the weapon.”
Here's a handy paragraph I keep as my guideline, but it isn't "Legal Advice":
A concealed handgun license holder who displays his or her handgun or otherwise intentionally reveals (or, "Exhibits?" or "unintentionally/accidently fails to conceal?" ... I don't know, I'm no Lawyer)
that he or she is carrying a concealed handgun is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor (TX PC § 46.035[a]).
If the weapon is displayed in a manner intended to cause alarm, the license holder is also guilty of a Class B misdemeanor (TX PC §42.01[a][8]),
unless the incident takes place on school property, in which case the license holder is guilty of a third degree felony (TX EDC §37.125[a]),
which could be enhanced to a second degree felony, PENAL CODE § 46.11.
A bump in a shirt is a bump in a shirt.
Concealed is concealed.
"Concealed Handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person
Only if the bump in the shirt is obviously a handgun, "openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person" there's a failure to conceal. But not because another CHL holder/person who knows you and knows you are a CHL holder is looking for, or notices, a bump in a shirt and knows why it is there
Additionally, remember that ... the
"failure to conceal" .... must be
intentional for it to be a criminal offense.
So, if you intentionally wear a see-through T-shirt and tuck it around your gun to display a real clear outline of the gun so it's obviously a gun .... yeah it could be illegal, but a bump in a shirt you can't see through ...could be anything ... like my knife sheath/snuff can holster/cell phone/pager/i-pod/urine bag/colostomy bag/insulin pump/EMS tool pouch ...
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:59 pm
by kurt68
Thanks guys, and I love the sense of humor. If you only knew what I do.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:33 pm
by Bulldog1911
RottenApple wrote:boba wrote:They're not breaking any law I know of.
HAAAAAA!!!!! I admit, had to re-read the OP.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:47 pm
by jmra
If you are walking down the street and no one is yelling "that guy has a gun" then chances are you are properly concealed. Now, if you stick a Turas Judge down your spandex pants and wear a skin tight shirt then you're going to draw some unwanted attention. Of course dressed like that you would draw attention without the gun.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:55 pm
by SQLGeek
Bulldog1911 wrote:RottenApple wrote:boba wrote:They're not breaking any law I know of.
HAAAAAA!!!!! I admit, had to re-read the OP.
OK I've re-read it a half-dozen times and I'm not seeing what y'all are laughing at.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:07 pm
by RottenApple
SQLGeek wrote:OK I've re-read it a half-dozen times and I'm not seeing what y'all are laughing at.
OP:
Is it legal that someone sees the outline or print of your concealed handgun as long as it is concealed? I can't get a straight answer.
The question is worded in such as way that he's asking if it's legal for someone to see it. Not whether it's legal for the CHL to have their gun printed. Boba said:
They're (as in the person who sees it) not breaking any law I know of.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:43 pm
by Rex B
jmra wrote:. Now, if you stick a Turas Judge down your spandex pants and wear a skin tight shirt then you're going to draw some unwanted attention. Of course dressed like that you would draw attention without the gun.
Not if you're on the boardwalk in Miami Beach
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:57 pm
by RPB
SQLGeek wrote:Bulldog1911 wrote:RottenApple wrote:boba wrote:They're not breaking any law I know of.
HAAAAAA!!!!! I admit, had to re-read the OP.
OK I've re-read it a half-dozen times and I'm not seeing what y'all are laughing at.
Is it legal that someone sees
paraphrased ... "is it legal for someone (else) to see" ...
Yes, it's legal (for
THEM) to see ... they broke no law by seeing
However,
you must not intentionally display/reveal
After working 25 years as a proofreader in a law office .... I learned to both read what it says and also what is meant :)
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:59 pm
by sugar land dave
Openly: completely free from concealment : exposed to general view or knowledge.
Discernible: perceptible by the senses or intellect.
Reasonable: governed by sound thinking; rational.
If it is covered with something not easily seen through, you should be good to go. Guessing by general shape is not good enough. In this day of mobile heart monitors, external pacemakers, insulin pump, and other personal medical assistance devices, it is unreasonable to think a bulge in clothing is a firearm, short of it being accidentally uncovered or ALL of its outlines being clearly visible through form-fitting fabric. Reasonable doubt......
Now, I think that I could make a case that if someone caught a quick glimpse or thought your bulge might be a firearm, and upon being confronted by them, you said it was ok, you have a license, then, at that moment, you are no longer concealed.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:03 pm
by Heartland Patriot
I've (perhaps not fully correctly) taken the phrase "ordinary observation by a reasonable person" to mean that an "average Joe or Josephine", even if they see a bulge, is not able to tell that it is indeed a handgun. I would think that does NOT include someone who has been trained specifically, and is in the active process of, looking for concealed handguns. "Intentionally fail to conceal" SHOULDN'T mean someone catching a glimpse due to shirt blowing up in the wind or something of that nature. It would be more like leaving it exposed on purpose, or pulling your shirt up to show someone, or putting it in the pocket of really tight clothing KNOWING that the outline will be easily seen. However, there are quite a few folks on here much more knowledgeable than me, and they may disagree. And there are situations that have occurred, though very infrequently, that weren't within the parameters of the law for either intentional failure or ordinary observation, but folks still had some trouble over it.
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:12 pm
by The Annoyed Man
kurt68 wrote:Thanks guys, and I love the sense of humor. If you only knew what I do.
Standup comedy?
Re: "printing" of your concealed gun
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:00 am
by RAM4171
kurt68 wrote:Thanks guys, and I love the sense of humor. If you only knew what I do.
Kurt, is that you, from Shielded Holsters?
If so, love the holster.
If not, what do you do?