question re: HB1815

[schufflerbot]

I'm going to the river with some friends this weekend and was planning on carrying my Sig in the car with me for the 3.5 hour trip. Obviously once there, it will stay in the camper the whole time (we're towing it, not driving it)

my question is - since we have decided to take my friend's truck, rather than mine, can I legally have the weapon in the vehicle with me while we're driving, under HB1815?

i do NOT have my CHL yet, FYI.

thanks, folks!

[TDDude]

I'm going to the river with some friends this weekend and was planning on carrying my Sig in the car with me for the 3.5 hour trip. Obviously once there, it will stay in the camper the whole time (we're towing it, not driving it)

my question is - since we have decided to take my friend's truck, rather than mine, can I legally have the weapon in the vehicle with me while we're driving, under HB1815?

i do NOT have my CHL yet, FYI.

thanks, folks!

I don't know what HB1815 is so of course that makes me wholly qualified to give advice.

As long as your friend can legally own a firearm, i.e. a convicted felon or doesn't fall under any other legal issue, it doesn't matter who owns the truck as long as the rules are followed for non-chl folks. Basically you just need to keep it concealed in the vehicle.

Texas has no "registration" for guns. That is one of the many and varied reasons I live here.

[TDDude]

I don't know what HB1815 is so of course that makes me wholly qualified to give advice.

OK, I read it. Same advice.

[schufflerbot]

LOL

yes, the person driving is actually a LEO... so i think i'll be ok in that dept. ;)

i guess my concern was, if we're pulled over and i'm a passenger at the time, rather than driver... is the driver going to have to claim the weapon?



and yes, HB1815 is what allows us to carry in our cars sans a CHL.


thanks!!!

[BrianSW99]

Just as an FYI, HB1815 may have been the bill number when it was originally passed, but that's not what it's known as now. It's generally referred to as the Motorist Protection Act, or MPA for short. If you just say HB1815, folks are going to think you're talking about a bill in the current legislative session, and since bill numbers get re-used every session, it's going to be something completely different.

Brian

[RPB]

Just as an FYI, HB1815 may have been the bill number when it was originally passed, but that's not what it's known as now. It's generally referred to as the Motorist Protection Act, or MPA for short. If you just say HB1815, folks are going to think you're talking about a bill in the current legislative session, and since bill numbers get re-used every session, it's going to be something completely different.

Brian

Right

Motorist Protection Act, or MPA for short. is currently
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
That chapter will change slightly soon (This Act takes effect September 1, 2011.) as the last Legislature added watercraft/boats
New text will be
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 00025F.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It was sent to the Governor for signing
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLook ... &Bill=HB25" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The last HB 1815 was about Utility Districts http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/Search/T ... =&Exclude=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[A-R]

yes, the relevant law is now part of the updated Texas Penal Code 46.02 and neither the short-hand MPA/Motorist Protection Act or a bill number from multiple sessions ago are truly relevant (though MPA is still used often) .... just courtesy FYI so we all know what you're talking about for next time.

Which lake/river are your traveling to? If it's maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers (Canyon Lake near New Braunfels immediately comes to mind for me, but there are multiple others in Texas maintained by USACOE) then you may NOT have any firearms of any kind with you on that property without special permission from the USACOE. Period. And possessing any gun there is a violation of Federal law.

36 C.F.R., Chapter III, Part 327, Rules and Regulations Governing Public Use of COE Water Resources Development Projects). 36 C.F.R. § 327.13(a) prohibits the possession of loaded firearms or ammunition on lands and waters administered by the Corps unless one of the exceptions in 36 C.F.R. § 327.13(a)(1)-(4) applies. Exceptions for law enforcement, permitted hunting, authorized shooting ranges, or with written permission of District Commander.

Hopefully this law will change soon, but right now possession on USACOE land or water is strictly prohibited. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45058&hilit=corps+engineers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[schufflerbot]

ohhhhhh... now i understand the confusion, thanks for the clarification!!

we're going to be floating the guadalupe river, staying at a campground near the 'Lazy L&L.' i'll do some research to see if it's one of the Army COE territories - thanks for the heads up on that... would have been a pretty crappy way to end a vacation, lol.

so, regarding the MPA - if the owner of a firearm is a passenger, not the driver, is the possession of a concealed handgun still covered?

i cant find any verbage other than, '...owned or being operated by...' and to me, that doesn't sound like a passenger is covered.

but, if we're splitting driving duties... i would think it would apply.

[schufflerbot]

i found the website of the campground. it says, 'no fireworks or firearms of any kind.'

i can only assume that since there are no 30.06 signs, this 'policy' on their website doesn't apply to CHLers....

[MasterOfNone]

ohhhhhh... now i understand the confusion, thanks for the clarification!!

we're going to be floating the guadalupe river, staying at a campground near the 'Lazy L&L.' i'll do some research to see if it's one of the Army COE territories - thanks for the heads up on that... would have been a pretty crappy way to end a vacation, lol.

so, regarding the MPA - if the owner of a firearm is a passenger, not the driver, is the possession of a concealed handgun still covered?

i cant find any verbage other than, '...owned or being operated by...' and to me, that doesn't sound like a passenger is covered.

but, if we're splitting driving duties... i would think it would apply.

The actual wording in 46.02(a)(2) is:

inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control

By the literal interpretation of this, you would not be permitted to carry while a passenger. However, you may fall back on 46.15(b)(2):

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(2) is traveling;

Also, if you put your gun in the console, it could be in the possession of the driver.

[TexasGal]

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

I was taught this meant you could only have your gun in the car under MPA if the car was yours or you were driving it--not just a passenger in someone else's car. Under CHL, it is ok. The OP does not have a CHL. Is this wrong? The person who answered this for me originally was a Fort Worth PD officer who teaches CHL.

[schufflerbot]

yeah, that's why i asked you guys... the way i interpret it, only the driver of the vehicle is allowed under MPA. I guess it's at the officer's discretion since we're splitting driving duties 50/50.

i have a conceal bag that i use as my range bag... i could just stick it under the seat and not have to worry about it.

its a tough decision... i want to be a law abiding citizen, but part of me almost feels obligated to carry en route.

[ScottDLS]

yeah, that's why i asked you guys... the way i interpret it, only the driver of the vehicle is allowed under MPA. I guess it's at the officer's discretion since we're splitting driving duties 50/50.

i have a conceal bag that i use as my range bag... i could just stick it under the seat and not have to worry about it.

its a tough decision... i want to be a law abiding citizen, but part of me almost feels obligated to carry en route.

Also, if the car is owned/leased by you, you should be OK, even if you're not driving.

[kirock7]

Just an FYI for your trip;
We just got back from a really nice vacation in the Texas Hill Country (we stayed at a nice 2 bedroom rental overlooking Canyon Lake).
Several times during the week we drove the full length of River Road... just be aware that the river is very low (as is the lake) and is running real slow.
If you stay at KL Ranch camp (just past First Crossing) you might have enough water in front of your campsite to float and fish, but some areas (like the Chute) are dry dry dry.

Hope you have a good time... we sure did!! (Rented a 24' pontoon boat and spent the afternoon on Canyon Lake one afternoon, fishing and swimming... it was fabulous!)

[ralewis]

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

I was taught this meant you could only have your gun in the car under MPA if the car was yours or you were driving it--not just a passenger in someone else's car. Under CHL, it is ok. The OP does not have a CHL. Is this wrong? The person who answered this for me originally was a Fort Worth PD officer who teaches CHL.

Well, this brings up a whole bunch of interesting (and largely academic) scenarios....

1) My son (21 years old) drives me to the courthouse annex for something. I (as a CHL holder) disarm and leave the gun in the car and he goes and gets a bite to eat while I wait in the vehicle registration line. I guess since he is driving, he's in control of the vehicle. So I'd imagine this is fine. (he does NOT have a CHL yet).

2) I'm driving with my 21 year old son and disarm for some reason. He is the passenger. Is he allowed to remain the vehicle while in the parking lot? I guess this is ok also.

3) what about the same as above but with my 18 year old son driving me or as a passenger in a parking lot? Seems ok since he is over 18.

4) What if I'm with my 11 year old son, I disarm and go into the court house. He's a passenger, but the gun is left in the car. I'd imagine in this case that's a problem since he's < 18 and I'm allowing unsupervised access to a handgun.

I'm sure we can come up with an infinite number of scenarios with combinations of different types of folks.

And I'm not really requesting answers so much as illustrating that there are a bunch of scenarios associated with the car carry that aren't explicitly covered by the law. Seems to me the operating principle is 1) somebody who can possess a gun. 2) in control of the vehicle 3) not doing anything illegal at the time.