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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxeZvUKpFbM

Okay so your carrying in this situation. I would really like to here all opinions on this one.

Do they serve booze and drugs on site?

The lady in white and the man who assaulting other should be arrested!

Lets say you are the one getting beat by this guy and you are carrying in Denny's where you can legally carry. What would you do in this situation? Thats what I am wanting to discuss.

texas1234 wrote:Lets say you are the one getting beat by this guy and you are carrying in Denny's where you can legally carry. What would you do in this situation? Thats what I am wanting to discuss.

If I am the one with the 2-strip sweater restrained/shielded by his female companion and got to 2 big arms swinging at me:
1) I pull at this BigBadBoy.... (legally justified)
2) Yell back off!
3) Any further intimidation, attempt to assault, you will get a to bring a huge plastic bag, a black one is recommended.
4) Call 911.

let's say like the guy in the video I didn't have a chance to pull my weapon and he started punching me? I would have done nothing since the guy stopped and put on his jacket and left...that video is pathetic though...the fact that management let it go on that long is ridiculous!!...and everyone else just sitting there and cheering....sickening

If it were happening to me I would shoot. However, I would probably have to be jumped by surprise for it to get to this point. Otherwise, I would not put myself into this situation and do whatever I could to keep it from getting this bad.

If I were witnessing this I would call the police immediately. Denny's employees are probably told the same thing when it comes to violence. Don't resist and don't get in the middle. However, they don't get involved until the women start fighting after the big guy is gone. No one tried to stop him. I don't know that I would get physically involved unless the victim was incapable of defending themselves or I had two or three friends with me that were able to help me restrain the attacker. I'm 6', 200lbs., and in good shape, but I don't know enough hand to hand to take someone like this guy one on one.

This is one reason I don't go to bars or clubs any more. I rarely did when I was younger. Fights break out and if more than two people get involved it turns into a free-for-all. Anyone remember the fight scene at the mud pit in McLintok?

Beiruty wrote:

texas1234 wrote:Lets say you are the one getting beat by this guy and you are carrying in Denny's where you can legally carry. What would you do in this situation? Thats what I am wanting to discuss.

If I am the one with the 2-strip sweater restrained/shielded by his female companion and got to 2 big arms swinging at me:
1) I pull at this BigBadBoy.... (legally justified)
2) Yell back off!
3) Any further intimidation, attempt to assault, you will get a to bring a huge plastic bag, a black one is recommended.
4) Call 911.

legally justified or not, you couldnt safely take a shot with how many people are in the restraunt

brandrum wrote:let's say like the guy in the video I didn't have a chance to pull my weapon and he started punching me? I would have done nothing since the guy stopped and put on his jacket and left...that video is pathetic though...the fact that management let it go on that long is ridiculous!!...and everyone else just sitting there and cheering....sickening

The video starts with fists flying, we don't see the actions that led to this.

Before it went this far, I would have attempted to de-escalate the situation. If unsuccessful at de-escalation I would attempt to leave. My wife would have been dialing 911, not arguing with an antagonist. The number of people in the near vicinity should give everyone pause to consider the consequences of deploying a weapon. Having said that, if he attempted to block my exit or was waiting outside for me, that makes it another ball game entirely.

If it were me.... Whether I was armed or unarmed...

1. I'd have passed the maple syrup

End of story.

I try not to hang out late at night where there are lots of people who have been drinking on empty heads.

i'm pretty sure this didn't happen after mass on a sunday afternoon.....

The part that is missing from the tape is the provocations that lead the male on male melee. As I understand it, if the guy who was taking the blows from the big dude had been part of a verbal exchange first (and that appears to have been a real possibility), the threat of deadly force later will be a real problem.

The filmed sequence is exactly the opposite of the de-escalation that we were supposed to have learned in our CHL classes. While I agree that the physically abusive woman in white needs to go to jail, there is verbal provocation from each of the other two women. This should never happen, in my opinion, if you are carrying. Responding in a calm voice is one thing. The banter is profanity laced, at a high volume and provocative. A grand jury seeing that tape (as the precursor to a shooting), is going to have ample reason to want to see the matter go to trial. I understand that you can stand your ground but in a crowded restaurant, I think that immediate withdrawal is a much better choice. I'd risk walking away from an unpaid bill before I'd stay in the building. I understand that going from a lighted building to a dark parking lot carries its own set of risks but it would be easier to claim self defense if I withdraw. As long as I was part of a heated verbal exchange in front of witnesses first, I think that my situation is in jeopardy, no matter what the finer points of the law are.

chasfm11 wrote:The part that is missing from the tape is the provocations that lead the male on male melee. As I understand it, if the guy who was taking the blows from the big dude had been part of a verbal exchange first (and that appears to have been a real possibility), the threat of deadly force later will be a real problem.

The filmed sequence is exactly the opposite of the de-escalation that we were supposed to have learned in our CHL classes. While I agree that the physically abusive woman in white needs to go to jail, there is verbal provocation from each of the other two women. This should never happen, in my opinion, if you are carrying. Responding in a calm voice is one thing. The banter is profanity laced, at a high volume and provocative. A grand jury seeing that tape (as the precursor to a shooting), is going to have ample reason to want to see the matter go to trial. I understand that you can stand your ground but in a crowded restaurant, I think that immediate withdrawal is a much better choice. I'd risk walking away from an unpaid bill before I'd stay in the building. I understand that going from a lighted building to a dark parking lot carries its own set of risks but it would be easier to claim self defense if I withdraw. As long as I was part of a heated verbal exchange in front of witnesses first, I think that my situation is in jeopardy, no matter what the finer points of the law are.

I doubt anyone immediately involved in either set of fisticuffs has a black-n-white justification to use deadly force because of the high liklihood of back-n-forth provocation. Now if it was the WOMEN who were doing the provoking and the big guy started punching on the guy in the striped jacket (who said nothing) simply because "you better control your woman" or whatever, then perhaps he's a bit more justified - but still very dicey. Best to avoid, retreat, call police.

If I was one of the other customers I would likely call 911 to report an ongoing violent assault, but I would also get up and leave and get me and my friends and loved ones as far away as possible. These kinds of fist fights have a nasty habit of spilling over to other tables/persons in a crowded restaurant and not everyone else there who may or may not have weapons (legally or illegally) is as conscientious as us "good guys" .... if striped jacket guy or his lady friend or anyone else HAD pulled a weapon, I don't want to be anywhere near it.

The employees should have been on top of that. I actually owned a bar at one time, and we never had a single fight. The key is to keep your eyes open and spot trouble before it starts. When guys start getting rowdy, you shut them down before they get out of hand. Granted, a Denny's is a different environment, but at some point, they had to start arguing before they started punching. That is when the waitress should have called the manager. You just bring 3 or 4 bus boys with you and tell these fine folks to change tables, finish their meals, and get out. This was just poor management. That fat guy in the apron just stood there watching and probably lost every customer in the establishment at that time. I doubt any of those diners will be back.

karder wrote:The employees should have been on top of that. I actually owned a bar at one time, and we never had a single fight. The key is to keep your eyes open and spot trouble before it starts. When guys start getting rowdy, you shut them down before they get out of hand. Granted, a Denny's is a different environment, but at some point, they had to start arguing before they started punching. That is when the waitress should have called the manager. You just bring 3 or 4 bus boys with you and tell these fine folks to change tables, finish their meals, and get out. This was just poor management. That fat guy in the apron just stood there watching and probably lost every customer in the establishment at that time. I doubt any of those diners will be back.

Since when is it a bus boy's job to provide site security for a restaurant? The manager needs to call the police and tell the offending customers that he/she has done so. But I don't recommend anyone get into the middle of an assault (or fixin'-to-be assault) unless you really know what you're doing.

But really why go to Denny's in the first place? Cheap food, you got bad food, worse you got what is in the video, but this could happen anywhere else too.