Need some honest opinions. (Mods move if necessary)

[pcgizzmo]

I'm not sure where this would fit so mods please move if you feel the need.

My wife's brother is in jail in Oklahoma. He is serving 30 years for manslaughter. He was on drugs and killed a girl and her father while driving. He went in right before I met my wife and she happened to be in law-school at the time. Well, long story short he's still in and still doing drugs. The drugs are easier to get in prison than on the street.

The really bad part is her parents have been paying his drug debts because they are afraid something is going to happen to him if they don't. They have paid thousands and I do mean thousands of dollars over the years to these low life's. It came to a head about a month ago and he's getting transferred out of his current prison but now there is an inmate that's calling my father-in-law and threating him and saying that my wife's brother owed him money and if he doesn't pay he's going to send someone on the outside to hurt him. Someone has already shown up outside my mother-in-laws office (She owns and insurance agency) saying that her son owes them money.

My in-laws tell these people they are not responsible for their sons debts but these low lifes know they've been paying all these years.

They are in a really bad situation. I told them I would change my phone # and get a gun and keep it on and around me 24/7. My father-in-law says he has one and it's loaded but I don't think he keeps it close and he's in such bad health I don't know if he could get to it in time if he needed it. My mother in law is anti-gun so I don't know if she would let him keep it out in the open or not.

It's a mess. I told him to tell the person calling him he was going to put a bounty out on him instead of paying the money but that might be a stupid move.

They are good people. They are just worried about there son. I think he's been playing them all this time and I personally don't want anything to do with him but I can't tell them that because they would disown me as well. They still seem to think he's the one with the drug problem and no one will help him and he has no responsibility for his actions. They are always making excuses for him.

So, any ideas? What would you do? I've got no clue other than anytime I go there I definitely bring my gun. I'm not going to die for their son's mistakes and will be prepared if some low life comes calling uninvited to their home.

[WildBill]

... but I can't tell them that because they would disown me as well.

It doesn't sound like they have disowned him.

[Oldgringo]

... but I can't tell them that because they would disown me as well.

It doesn't sound like they have disowned him.

...and it sounds like disowning him is long overdue...

[pcgizzmo]

Yes, I agree but I can't even say anything like that to them. There so caught up in the "look at our poor son and what the prison system has done to him" It's all someone elses fault and not his because they think he has an illness. They've convinced themselves he's not to blame but his illness is. I'm not saying that addiction is not an illness but at some point you have to pick yourself up off the floor and make some choices for yourself. I don't pretend to know what it's like but I've seen others that have taken control of their lives so I know he must be able to do it.

[RPBrown]

They are what is known as enablers. If they continue to do so, the results can be even more traumatic.

Had a step-son many years ago (in a previous wife, I mean life) whose mother continued to enable even within the prison walls. He eventually overdosed and almost died.That finally opened her eyes. Several years after our divorce, he did die from an overdose but she was still blaming everyone else.

[RoyGBiv]

Perhaps you should be talking with the local LE folks in your in-laws city...?

[pcgizzmo]

Perhaps you should be talking with the local LE folks in your in-laws city...?

There afraid of what might happen to him. He tells them it's all run by prison gangs and if someone tells and they find out it will be bad for him. It's a crazy situation.

[puma guy]

I'm not sure where this would fit so mods please move if you feel the need.

It came to a head about a month ago and he's getting transferred out of his current prison but now there is an inmate that's calling my father-in-law and threating him and saying that my wife's brother owed him money and if he doesn't pay he's going to send someone on the outside to hurt him. .

How would an inmate be able to phone your inlaws? In Texas unless they have set up a phone account with an inmate they can not call you. If the calles are collect, simply hang up. If the inmate did get through any way it would be simple enough to report his threatening calls to the prison authorities who can look at the phone records. Of course there is the real possibility the son is calling and putting another person on the line. I hope this works out. My wifes has two nephews in the grave from OD'ing because of their enabling mothers. Fortunately my wife and I were able to take into our home the brother of one of the nephews and influence him and mentor him. His mother, my wife's sister, passed away last year (natural causes) and that boy pulled me aside and thanked me for helping him take a different path.

[G.A. Heath]

I'm not sure where this would fit so mods please move if you feel the need.

It came to a head about a month ago and he's getting transferred out of his current prison but now there is an inmate that's calling my father-in-law and threating him and saying that my wife's brother owed him money and if he doesn't pay he's going to send someone on the outside to hurt him. .

How would an inmate be able to phone your inlaws? In Texas unless they have set up a phone account with an inmate they can not call you. If the calles are collect, simply hang up. If the inmate did get through any way it would be simple enough to report his threatening calls to the prison authorities who can look at the phone records. Of course there is the real possibility the son is calling and putting another person on the line. I hope this works out. My wifes has two nephews in the grave from OD'ing because of their enabling mothers. Fortunately my wife and I were able to take into our home the brother of one of the nephews and influence him and mentor him. His mother, my wife's sister, passed away last year (natural causes) and that boy pulled me aside and thanked me for helping him take a different path.

Like drugs, weapons, and other items that are prohibited for prisoners, cell phones are frequently smuggled in to the prison system.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Perhaps you should be talking with the local LE folks in your in-laws city...?

There afraid of what might happen to him. He tells them it's all run by prison gangs and if someone tells and they find out it will be bad for him. It's a crazy situation.

Your in-laws need to get the police involved. They can record the phone calls for the PD and if the police want, they can set up a meeting to pay the dirt bags and let them get busted. Yes, their son may get hurt; in fact, there's a pretty good chance he will. If they don't do this, they may get hurt or killed, as well as their daughter, you and any grandchildren. How likely this is will depend upon the level of organization and ruthlessness of the drug gang. If they have people on the outside that make visits to your in-laws, it sounds to me like they are relatively well organized.

As for guns -- absolutely!!! But the situation they are facing is much worse than the general threat all of us face from the criminal population. A drug gang has focused on them, they have a history of paying, and payment of a "debt" can turn into a garden variety robbery and murder in short order. Getting and carrying a gun without training and practice is better than nothing, but it doesn't get them ready for what they may face. They can't get by with simply being competent; they need to be GOOD if they are facing multiple attackers who are part of a drug gang. They also need be educated on what to look for in terms of threats and, if possible, extend their training to rifles or shotguns. BTW, unless their local police dept. is unique, the officers are going to discourage getting guns and training. That is advice I would ignore.

Good luck, it sounds like they're going to need it. They are in a very dangerous position.
Chas.

[Oldgringo]

There are only two people who can resolve this problem. Cut the umbilical and git 'er done!

[puma guy]

Like drugs, weapons, and other items that are prohibited for prisoners, cell phones are frequently smuggled in to the prison system.]

That's certainly true. I was assuming since the caller was identified as an inmate it was through the inmate call process and didn't consider a cell phone being used.

As to how a cell phone gets into the hands of an inmate?

I wasn't going to go there, but Prisons are cess pools of corruption, illicit activity, mistreatment, brutality, disease and death. Cell phones in Texas were available with almost no action to stop the smuggling until John Whitmire got a threatening call from a Polunsky inmate; on Death Row no less. Guards smuggled the phones. No one really cares what happens inside our prisons but we all suffer as a result of what they can create. Don't get me wrong, I am not a bleeding heart when it comes to punishing criminals I just know there is much room for improvement. Such as appropriate levels of staffing and better pay for staff, more training, much more oversight into all aspects of the sysyem - including the procurement and purchasing and especially the Parole Board and parole process. More and better education opportunities for inmates. I think the last statistic I saw indicated 3/4 of a million persons in Texas are actively under the "care" of TDCJ - either incarcerated or on parole or probation. And we are building more prisons that will be understaffed and will then only become new holes. Oklahoma is no different when it comes to shortcomings of the sysytem I'm sure. There - My rant is done, sorry if I offended any one.

[WildBill]

They are what is known as enablers. If they continue to do so, the results can be even more traumatic.

Yes, I agree but I can't even say anything like that to them. There so caught up in the "look at our poor son and what the prison system has done to him"

If you really wanted to you can. You have, also, become an enabler. You are also caught up in the "look at our poor son/brother" mentality.

You want to save them, but nothing you can do will save them or their son. Since they have refused to get law enforcement involved they will continue to be manipulated by their son and nothing will improve. You are letting yourself be manipulated and you will continue to get frustrated and accomplish nothing. You and your wife will be dragged down into a never ending cycle of destruction. Unless the cycle is broken, it will continue to effect many future generations of the family.

My opinion will sound insensitive, callous and even cruel. But since you asked, my honest opinion is to cut them loose have nothing at all to do with them. Nothing! This is a hard decision, but one that you have to make. Accept the fact that you can't save them, but that is the only way that you will save yourself.

Good luck.

I don't really expect that my opinion will affect your actions, but IANAL, LEO, counselor, therapist, clergy etc.

[jamisjockey]

Are they asking you for help and advice?
Here's what I've learned about family, though. They ask for help and advice. You give them what seems to be sound, sage and safe advice. They promptly ignore it and do whatever stupid thing they were going to do anyways.
Unless they are asking and willing to buck up and take your advice.....
You asked "what would you do?". Me? I'd butt out, and leave them to figure out how to deal with it.

[couzin]

Your BIL is a con - and here is how it is played. BIL on inside, is using sympathetic (enabling) parents just like he would con somebody on the street. Parents are an easy mark. The threats coming from inside and outside the walls are (usually) part of the con. The problem is - the parents have already fallen for the 'I'm gonna get beat down if this bill isn't paid' bull - it is going to be hard to just break it off. I've seen the cons on the inside actually take a beating just before visitation just so they can get a little extra in the commissary account. Charles is correct - time to talk to the police about any and all threats. And then it is time to cut this one loose...