TexasCHLforum.com

Whenever justification for use of deadly force is discussed, seems at some point the discussion turns to whether it is ever OK to shoot an unarmed attacker. Texas law is largely silent on the distinction between armed/unarmed, instead conditioning justification on whether a use of deadly force response to attack was reasonable and immediately necessary to thwart an imminent attack. Reasonable seems to be key in discussion of using deadly force against unarmed attacker. Members such as myself and TAM (hope you don't mind me speaking for you big guy), often argue that even an unarmed attacker, if younger, faster, bigger, stronger, and more prone to violence CAN BE a truly lethal threat, especially to potential victims who are older, slower, less physically capable etc.

Point of all this is a belief that merely a punch to the head can kill.

So today I provide a case in point:

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... ter_5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Travis County deputy found Curtis unconscious and bleeding from the mouth shortly after midnight Wednesday at the 14200 block of North Interstate 35 after receiving a report of a disturbance, the affidavit said. Witnesses told police Hill punched Curtis in the face and he fell over, the affidavit said.

Hill was found nearby, and later told deputies he hit his brother and was willing to do any amount of time for the assault, the affidavit said. Hill told deputies he got into an argument with his brother in the parking lot of Chaparral Ice and Curtis told Hill to hit him, the affidavit said.

Curtis was considered brain dead and was on life support following the incident, the affidavit said. He was declared dead shortly after 10 a.m., the affidavit said.

It's a sad situation, there's a cigar forum that I'm on where this was posted, before the news story was posted, the poster is one of the witnesses, he and his buddies walked out of the rink and saw the two brothers on the ground, the one on top of the other. Paramedics said the back of his head was somewhat split open.

As I recall, Harry Houdini was killed by a single punch to the abdomen.

PUCKER wrote:It's a sad situation, there's a cigar forum that I'm on where this was posted, before the news story was posted, the poster is one of the witnesses, he and his buddies walked out of the rink and saw the two brothers on the ground, the one on top of the other. Paramedics said the back of his head was somewhat split open.

Ick. That sounds like maybe the punch knocked him out and the impact with the pavement killed him.

In other lives - some individuals are taught hand to hand how to put a stop to an attack or how to attack with finality. It goes beyond a simple punch to the schnooz. It is brutal and swift - I am sure lots of folk on here know the drills...

as a 24 year paramedic I can tell you that I've seen plenty of people die without the use of any weapon. Someone coming at you in a threatening manner CAN be life threatening.

Similar thing happened in Portland, ME a year or so ago. One punch and the victim was dead.

A single punch can absolutely kill. Many times the lethal component is the victim's head striking the ground during an unprotected fall resulting from the punch, particularly if the person being hit loses consciousness. Punch + head hitting the asphalt = death, brain injury, cracked skull, and so on. It is difficult to kill a trained individual with one punch as they are less likely to take a full impact hit, know how to take a fall, and know how to avoid being knocked out. Fists and feet are very serious weapons.

Wow - a brother killed his own brother with 1 punch.

Methinks the punching brother would be a serious threat to
all his non-kin too.

SIA

A push can kill you.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Wo ... n6lGw.cspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In a civilized and armed society, there is no need to ever put a hand on another person.


Some more death by punches:

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 6686201.jp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-b ... 02847.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=567003" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


TV is part of the problem. Often, in movies and shows, the protagonist takes a major beating in a fight with the villan, and then gets up, dusts himself off, and walks away.
In reality, a real fight can quite possibly, and probably, end in serious bodily injury or death. Something to consider.

Deadly threat is not the only issue for CHL, serious bodily injury is also cause to protect yourself with deadly force, is it not? You don't have to take a beating because the attacker didn't have a gun.

O6nop wrote:Deadly threat is not the only issue for CHL, serious bodily injury is also cause to protect yourself with deadly force, is it not? You don't have to take a beating because the attacker didn't have a gun.

Agreed. Speaking as someone who has dealt with a traumatic brain injury (TBI) within the family, it certainly qualifies as serious bodily injury.

TNT wrote:as a 24 year paramedic I can tell you that I've seen plenty of people die without the use of any weapon. Someone coming at you in a threatening manner CAN be life threatening.

Zackly. I worked long enough in an ER to know that a single punch, particularly to the head, can kill a man. I've seen it. To underscore the point, professional boxers have died following brain injuries sustained in the ring. Absolutely, a punch has the potential of being lethal if "properly administered" by a strong enough person against the right part of the head.

That is why a reasonable actor may reasonably believe that a threat of a beating is a threat of deadly force, and may reasonably respond in kind with a pistol if the assault proceeds.