car break in

[alvins]

Sunday night i got up to find my neighbors car being broken into at about 4am. I called the police and ofcourse they ran away before the police got their. I live on the second story and they had their backs to me with a clear line of fire to all 3. Now with this being said how many on here would shoot them if it was their car being broken into and they didnt realise you were watching? In all honesty im not sure I would since im in my apartment safe. any comments?

[USA1]

First of all, I'd never shoot anyone in the back.
Second, my gun is for protecting my loved ones and myself from harm.

Property can be replaced.

[Divided Attention]

My car and nothing in it short of myself and family is worth the nightmares and loss of my weapon - it is my understanding it will be taken in for evidence and the chance of seeing it again "good shoot or no" is slim to none.

[RiverCity.45]

I wouldn't. Aside from it being an unnecessary taking of a life, the cost of replacing the stuff would be cheaper than the legal cost of defending such a shooting.

[alvins]

oh well i didnt even want to let them know i was watching much less try to take one of them out. I know some people who would have no problem going out and start shooting but i was just wondering what you guys think.

thanks russell but i never said i was going to defend someone elses property.

[jamisjockey]

Only for sure would I consider shooting them in the exact scenerio you posted if I knew there was a gun in the car they might be stealing. I don't think I could stand there and watch them steal a gun.
Did you have a balcony where you could cover them from? What kind of weapon do you have? Shooting sounds like it would probably be justified under TPC. I don't think you did anything wrong by not confronting them or shooting them, though. Outnumbered 3 to 1, no idea if they are armed....no sir, I don't like it.

Only shoot them in the back from your second story apartment window to protect your neighbors car if you feel like going to jail that night, and later prison.

Russell, totally justified. Respectfully, under TPC, you're wrong:

PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible,
movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under
Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly
force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary,
robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal
mischief during the nighttime; or6
2 TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing
burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime
from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by
any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover
the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial
risk of death or serious bodily injury.
PC §9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect
land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances
as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be
justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to
protect his own land or property and:(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes
attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the
tangible
movable property; or(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or
property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property;
or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or
deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides
with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

[USA1]

I know some people who would have no problem going out and start shooting but i was just wondering what you guys think.

Unfortunately, I know people like that too.
But as we become older and wiser, we think with our head and not with our heart. The best thing to do in that situation is to stay quiet and out of sight, call police and get a detailed description of the perps and direction they fled.

Let the Police handle it from there on.

IMO

[texas1234]

You would have enjoyed some good prison time for that. You dont have a very big window of opportunnity for the use of lethal force in self defense and I'm not talking about your apartment window. Go back through the Texas CHL Laws and read the portion on deadly force, also start watching shows like A&E 48 Hours, that program gives you a very good understanding of the criminal justice system and how it works from the time of a crime all the way through the litigation process with a lot of differnt examples. Bottom-line is you did the right thing, but this stuff needs to get engrained in your head. When your adrenaline is pumping is not the time to start studying.

[RiverCity.45]

There's that annoying little caveat that one must believe the property cannot be recovered by any other means. I suspect a grand jury of reasonable people might have doubts that there no other other methods at one's disposal short of shooting someone in the back.

[alvins]

Only for sure would I consider shooting them in the exact scenerio you posted if I knew there was a gun in the car they might be stealing. I don't think I could stand there and watch them steal a gun.
Did you have a balcony where you could cover them from? What kind of weapon do you have? Shooting sounds like it would probably be justified under TPC. I don't think you did anything wrong by not confronting them or shooting them, though. Outnumbered 3 to 1, no idea if they are armed....no sir, I don't like it.

Only shoot them in the back from your second story apartment window to protect your neighbors car if you feel like going to jail that night, and later prison.

well i have several hand guns and a shotgun for skeet/trap shooting. but I only had my 9mm walther pps out and ready for my own protection. basically my window overlooks where i park and this other persons car at an angle. my lights were off and i had one of the slats in the miniblinds open so i could see. so basically they wouldnt know i was their unless they hear a noise from my direction.maybe about 25-30 feet away.



wow some of you need to read. I am not talking about defending someone else property.im talking about if this was your own.

[jamisjockey]

No sir. The phrase "reasonably believes" is the catch all here.

(3) he reasonably believes that:

Does anyone here reasonably believe that stolen property will ever be recovered? Most of it is never recovered.

Otherwise I'm with the majority. I have no interest in shooting someone over property, unless that property is a gun being stolen.

As for shooting someone in the back:

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committingburglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime
from escaping with the property; and

So if the other stipulations are met, I see no way you could be prosecuted for it.

[jamisjockey]

Only for sure would I consider shooting them in the exact scenerio you posted if I knew there was a gun in the car they might be stealing. I don't think I could stand there and watch them steal a gun.
Did you have a balcony where you could cover them from? What kind of weapon do you have? Shooting sounds like it would probably be justified under TPC. I don't think you did anything wrong by not confronting them or shooting them, though. Outnumbered 3 to 1, no idea if they are armed....no sir, I don't like it.

Only shoot them in the back from your second story apartment window to protect your neighbors car if you feel like going to jail that night, and later prison.

well i have several hand guns and a shotgun for skeet/trap shooting. but I only had my 9mm walther pps out and ready for my own protection. basically my window overlooks where i park and this other persons car at an angle. my lights were off and i had one of the slats in the miniblinds open so i could see. so basically they wouldnt know i was their unless they hear a noise from my direction.maybe about 25-30 feet away.
wow some of you need to read. I am not talking about defending someone else property.im talking about if this was your own.

Both are justified under TPC.

Ignoring any legal aspects, from a practical standpoint, you would have been in a tough spot. 3 bad guys and a compact firearm from 25-30 feet? That is long gun work right there.