Tenants who threatned you

[tiger1873]

I was at a rental property with a plumber doing plumbing repair the other day and tenants walk in and start picking a fight. These guys have been late and are trying to break the lease. Anyways he comes up to me and and starts yelling at me. I walk out of the house and him and his wife follow me. Put his hand on the truck so I couldn't close the door. Unfortunately I didn't have my chl and didn't leave anything in my car. I told him get away from the car or else you are going to get hurt.

They call the police over that and said I threatened them. I drove down the road and called 911 and met with the officer on route. He was real nice and noticed I was approved with a chl. He told me don't worry about it and then talked to them. I was going to evict them this week over this incident. But they are supposed to be moving out before the end of the month. Hopefully that will be the end of it. If they don't move I will be evicting them.

The question I have is since now i do have a CHL in hand how would have you approached this situation. What would have happened if I pulled a gun on them with a valid chl. This is the first time in my life I actually felt like I should have had a gun and might have needed it. He stepped back after I told him to step back before he gets hurt. I was able to close the door and take off.I may have to see them once more if they do move out but they are truly nuts. They are demanding their deposit back and they know where I live. I am not worried about that if they show up they do not have any right to be there and I can show them what the wrong end my shotgun looks like there.

[dewayneward]

Did you feel that your life was in danger?

Words are not a valid defense. If they called you every name in the book, it wouldn't be OK to pull your gun, if you believe that your life was in danger, then that is a different story.

It looks like you were trying to de-escalate (i.e. leaving the house, walking away from them), which is the correct response from a CHL'r. the only QB'ing I could offer is since you knew they were whackjobs, maybe have a police officer there to "keep the peace".

As far as the hand on the truck, was it a "Ford"? Sorry, trying to lighten the mood a bit. That is tricky, but QB'ing again, still not time to show him the business end of your defense weapon. But, again, I was not there and am typing this from the comfort of my work pc

[A-R]

Did you feel that your life was in danger?

Words are not a valid defense. If they called you every name in the book, it wouldn't be OK to pull your gun, if you believe that your life was in danger, then that is a different story.

IANAL, but I believe you're leaving out a very important word here. Should said did you REASONABLY feel your life was in danger.

Relevant statute, emphasis added (again, IANAL):

DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

Seems the OP did the right thing, with or without a CHL, in this circumstance. Remember, just because you have a gun doesn't mean you need to use it.

Agree with follow up post that if you need any further face-to-face contact with these tenants, bring a sheriff or police officer with you.

[tiger1873]

Luckily he stepped back when I told him. That was really my first line of defense and really the only one other then my hands that day. I was defiantly trying to de-escalate the situation. Problem is he kept coming at me yelling at me and coming towards me. I should also mention his wife was doing the same thing and was the one who called the police on me. I didn't have any weapons in the vehicle and that was truly stupid on my end. Not only that in the future it will be on me not in the truck. You truly do not have time to grab it in these kind of situations if it gets out of control. You also better have one in the pipe ready to go because things can happen quickly.

If he didn't stepped back or grabbed me it would have been pretty bad. I was lucky I was able to get out of there. I also do not know if I want wait until someone grabs me. I should also mention I am the property owner as well. they have the right to be there since they are the renters. At the time I did have the right to be there since they signed a lease stating I could be on site during emergency repairs without notice. (did give them notice though)

In this case I was trying to retreat since it made the most sense. I will try and have the police meet me there when I have to go over there. I am not sure though if they will. I think I may want to start taking some self defense classes in the future so I am better prepared. Anyone know of a good class on self defense handgun training in the DFW area that isn't super expensive.

[Trinitite]

Let it go if they move out on time. If not, have backup (police and/or video) when you talk to them.

[marksiwel]

You dont need to do anything different, you did the right thing. You called the cops, you got away.
What happened to the plumber?

[tiger1873]

You dont need to do anything different, you did the right thing. You called the cops, you got away.
What happened to the plumber?

IThe plumber was able to complete the job I think they really just wanted to pick a fight with me.

I hope they move out on Sunday. If not I have lawyer on standby to evict. Then I can let the sheriff toss them out.

[TheReverend]

It's a shame you didn't evict them last week. this way you could save some other property owner the "pleasure" of dealing with them.

[Target1911]

DFW gun has all kinds of SD classes but I dont have any exp with them

[KD5NRH]

I may have to see them once more if they do move out but they are truly nuts. They are demanding their deposit back and they know where I live.

Digital voice recorders are cheap. For $35-50 you should be able to get one that will hold 12+ hours at good quality, and connect to your PC to archive the recordings. You should have one with you all the time, and especially when you're dealing with vendors or clients.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?s ... d=70869457" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Surveillance camera systems with audio recording are more expensive, but if it reduces the time you have to pay a lawyer for by one hour, it pays for itself. If visible cameras make them reconsider damaging something, it pays for itself even quicker.
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory ... -Solutions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tiger1873]

It's a shame you didn't evict them last week. this way you could save some other property owner the "pleasure" of dealing with them.

Don't worry about that I will be sending them to collections or filing in small claims court for them breaking their lease so the next landlord will be able to find out about them since it will end up on their credit reports. The only reason I didn't evict is it is faster if they move out on their own.Once you start those proceedings they have no incentive to move until you go though the judge.

[dewayneward]

As far as self defense classes, Krav Maga is the way to go. I take Tae Kwon Do and Karate and dont get me wrong , they are great and I enjoy it...BUT, if you want business end results, Krav will give you some good real world training.

http://krav-magatexas.com/main/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the main guy there is Bart Brooks.. Great guy and very smart. Tell 'em DeeeeeWayne sent ya :-)

[HankB]

Withdrawing was a good move . . . although it's not clear to me how his hand on your truck would keep you from closing the door, unless he actually grabbed the door. (I'm assuming he wasn't dumb enough to put his hand where the door would close on it - that wouldn't prevent you from slamming it! )

In terms of gathering evidence of the other guy's threatening moves, there are some tiny (thumb-sized) video cameras available on Ebay for around $25 delivered . . . here's a link to a youtube video a guy on another forum made with one of them: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (The guy just clipped it to his visor as he drove home.)

[dihappy]

Why were they even upset?
Why were they yelling and what did they want?


When i rented, my contract was specific in that i had access for any and all repairs that needed to be made.

Did they contact you about the plumbing?
If they kept you from accessing your property for a lawful reason, they could be in breach of contract. I'd post an eviction notice on the spot.

[Oldgringo]

I was at a rental property with a plumber doing plumbing repair the other day and tenants walk in and start picking a fight. ....

...The question I have is since now i do have a CHL in hand how would have you approached this situation....