TexasCHLforum.com

I thought this might be of interest to my fellow forumites:

Dallas, Tx
On Dec. 28th, about 9:15am, at the light at Mockingbird and Lemmon (by the Coke plant), two men attempted to car-jack a personal friend of mine..
He had just left the parking area at Love Field. He was headed east on Mockingbird,
he was in the right hand lane stopped at the light. Two men (1 black, 1 Mex) in a white p/u
truck pulled up on his left. They engaged, wanting to know where was the nearest Home
Depot. He told them to turn right on Lemmon, and it was a few blocks down on the left. The man in
the passenger seat then began to step out of the truck, he told my friend “that's a nice truck you have”, he
pointed a gun and said, "I'll take the truck AND your watch". My friend then pulled his own gun, pointed
it at the gunman and said, "now you've got a problem, what are we gonna do?" The bad guy jumped back into the white p/u, screaming GO, GO, GO........the driver turned right in front of my friend and headed south on Lemmon.
He called 911. He explained there had been an attempted car-jacking and he was following the bad guys. He stayed 8 or 9 car lengths behind them. He gave a description of his own vehicle, their vehicle and tag numbers. Within 30-40 seconds a B&W pulled up, My friend waved and pointed to the car-jackers truck. The officer stopped them. My friend pulled over well behind. Another B&W arrived. The officers found the gun, arrested both bad guys etc.
Everything turned out OK. My friend was not injured, he kept his truck, he kept his Rolex, the car-jackers got caught.

So, what would make someone think it couldn't or won't happen to them? The old worn out phrase: Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, couldn’t ring truer.

If someone pulled a gun on me and I was armed, most likely he will get a bullet or two, not " you've got a problem"

gemini wrote:
So, what would make someone think it couldn't or won't happen to them? The old worn out phrase: Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, couldn’t ring truer.

You are so correct. I have repeatedly told my daughters that no one wakes up one morning and says "You know, my life is so boring. I think I want to be raped and murdered today". I have always been told to consider "could it happen?". If that answer is "yes", then you take actions and accept responsibility to minimize the probability.

Most people never think can/will be a victim until it happens to them. Too many times the outcome is not nearly as good as it was for your friend. This situation could have gone bad in so many ways. Thank goodness your friend was willing and able to protect himself and his property.

Beiruty wrote:If someone pulled a gun on me and I was armed, most likely he will get a bullet or two, not " you've got a problem"

Nice. Easy to armchair quarterback when you have no direct involvement. The situation was resolved: my friend is OK, his property is ok, BG's are going to jail. Granted, it could have turned bad quickly for both parties. But, I trust my friends judgement. In this particular incident, his decision to not shoot turned out well.
Sorry I wasn't more specific. The point to my post was this happened in the morning, broad daylight, heavy traffic intersection, other cars in the immediate area, waiting for a traffic light to change: anywhere, anytime, anyplace. More of a warning to others, rather than seeking analysis of a incident where all relevant facts may not be present.

gemini wrote: The point to my post was this happened in the morning, broad daylight, heavy traffic intersection, other cars in the immediate area, waiting for a traffic light to change: anywhere, anytime, anyplace. More of a warning to others, rather than seeking analysis of a incident where all relevant facts may not be present.

This is problem is only getting worse every day. More and more times I am seeing low-life's attack in the middle of the day with plenty of witnesses around. They're only getting braver and braver. Good thing is that, like your friend, we all here can defend ourselves if necessary.

Glad to hear that everything turned out okay and your friend was unhurt. Also, very glad the BG's didn't get away. Very heads-up of your friend to follow at a safe distance and not let them escape.

I know you never said your friend had just arrived on an airplane but this incident just emphasizes the point that if you travel with your pistol in your checked baggage, it is wise to discretely put it some place much handier when you reach your car. My first though while reading your post was "Oh no, the poor guy has his gun in his suitcase and can't get to it!". After reading further I'm so glad that that was not the case.

bpet wrote:I know you never said your friend had just arrived on an airplane but this incident just emphasizes the point that if you travel with your pistol in your checked baggage, it is wise to discretely put it some place much handier when you reach your car...

My first stop after retrieving my checked bag is the nearest men's room, where I load my pistol and holster it. The men's room closest to the checkin counter is also my last stop just before checking my bag.

Back to the story...

As to the original post -- and the second one -- I am glad your friend came out alright, and went above and beyond to make sure these clowns ended up in police custody. Much congratulations, he was very heads-up with that. It also illustrates a point about being the first one to call 911. The story would be a bit different if your friend had shrugged it off -- and the two jokers in the pickup had decided to get revenge by calling in how they were almost carjacked by this gun nut in the right hand lane...

But Beiruty has a very valid point. Your friend is still alive because the bad guy with the gun decided to let him live -- twice, as a matter of fact. When your friend decided to make a remark instead of shooting, he really was saying, "OK you're turn to decide whether to shoot or not." That is not a winning strategy. I know you wanted to highlight the fact that you can run into trouble anywhere, but this point about talking instead of shooting really jumps out in the story, regardless of the other facts. If your friend felt he was in enough danger to draw his weapon, that DIDN'T change merely because he pulled the gun out. He got away with it this time, and maybe most carjackers are as chicken as these two guys. But it is like running a yellow/red light -- you often get away with it, but when you don't the consequences are severe.

Yes armchair quarterbacking is easy. That does not make it wrong. People make mistakes in the heat of action. We come here to discuss stuff like this at leisure so we have some better ideas in our head when we need them. It may be polite to not point out the rough spots in the story, but it is more beneficial.

IMHO.....I think you would have to be there in the situation to gauge the correct response. I understand the mind set of pull your weapon and shoot, but I suspect this had a much better outcome based on the CHL holders action. From what I have read on this forum pulling the trigger would have been an expensive proposition to his wallet and conscience. If the BG shot and if the BG hit the CHL holder the argument swings in the other direction. However the fact is by just pulling his gun he got out of a situation without firing. Just my humble opinion.

ELB wrote:

bpet wrote:I know you never said your friend had just arrived on an airplane but this incident just emphasizes the point that if you travel with your pistol in your checked baggage, it is wise to discretely put it some place much handier when you reach your car...

My first stop after retrieving my checked bag is the nearest men's room, where I load my pistol and holster it. The men's room closest to the checkin counter is also my last stop just before checking my bag.

Back to the story...

As to the original post -- and the second one -- I am glad your friend came out alright, and went above and beyond to make sure these clowns ended up in police custody. Much congratulations, he was very heads-up with that. It also illustrates a point about being the first one to call 911. The story would be a bit different if your friend had shrugged it off -- and the two jokers in the pickup had decided to get revenge by calling in how they were almost carjacked by this gun nut in the right hand lane...

But Beiruty has a very valid point. Your friend is still alive because the bad guy with the gun decided to let him live -- twice, as a matter of fact. When your friend decided to make a remark instead of shooting, he really was saying, "OK you're turn to decide whether to shoot or not." That is not a winning strategy. I know you wanted to highlight the fact that you can run into trouble anywhere, but this point about talking instead of shooting really jumps out in the story, regardless of the other facts. If your friend felt he was in enough danger to draw his weapon, that DIDN'T change merely because he pulled the gun out. He got away with it this time, and maybe most carjackers are as chicken as these two guys. But it is like running a yellow/red light -- you often get away with it, but when you don't the consequences are severe.

Yes armchair quarterbacking is easy. That does not make it wrong. People make mistakes in the heat of action. We come here to discuss stuff like this at leisure so we have some better ideas in our head when we need them. It may be polite to not point out the rough spots in the story, but it is more beneficial.

Having heard the story directly from my friend....I still don't know all the facts, the surrounding backstop, how far out of the truck the BG had actually gotten, whether the BG still had his weapon pointed directly at my friend, etc etc etc. All factors that may have
influenced his decision NOT to shoot. Do I think he had every right to pull the trigger? Absolutely. But I'm not him.
My own opinion on what I would have done is very similar to Beiruty. Except I would probably have emptied my 1st mag and reloaded. Knowing what I presently know to be facts. However, I was NOT THERE. Just because deadly force may be warranted there is no requirement that deadly force be used. Those are decisions each individual must determine for themselves. What they can live with. There is no pat answer here.
The other reason I am not second guessing his decision not to shoot, is because I do know him personally. I have been hunting with him on mutiple occasions.. We've had many discussions on self defense, CHL etc. I don't think he would have any problems shooting someone that needed shooting (that sounds very old western). For whatever reason, he just didn't think shooting was necessary.
The point to the post remains: anywhere, anytime, anyplace. Be careful, be aware.

It is tricky situation, some BG pulls a gun at you, he has an accomplice and you do not . You pull your carry firearm a fire, you hit the BG, you would be arrested until the fog is cleared. the BG accomplice could bare false witness and frame you as the instigator and the killer. If you did not pull, you may already be dead, injured or humiliated for nothing. I can live with later option.

he pointed a gun and said, "I'll take the truck AND your watch"

The proper response at this point would be to exit the vehicle whereby you could assume a shooting stance and open fire until the threat is neutralized. Don't tell him he's got a problem. Give him one. It's not a debate.

He was there, it was his decision to make and he got to go home without any physical harm.

As for the shoot, don't shoot discussion - we don't have all the facts, many of which would be difficult to explain. We all assess a person's body language everyday in order to determine threat level, mood, health, confidence, etc. I would guess that your friend's initial assessment of his body language played a major role in his decision not to fire at that time.

The guy pulling the gun to scare him out of the truck, then putting it down by his leg to hide the gun, is entirely different than the gun being held on him with his finger on the trigger.

Being able to shoot and needing to shoot are two separate issues. I give him an A+ for handling himself so well under such a high level of duress.

Your friend is very lucky to be alive. The way he handled it could have gone terribly wrong. Thank God nothing happened.

I think his friend handled it perfectly. Reason being...he is alive. Nuff said!