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I know some malls have 30.06 signs posted at every entrance to the parking lot. Is it illegal to bring your gun into the parking lot and keep it in the car? Or do those signs only apply to carrying "indoors" or beyond "checkpoints" when outdoors?

When legally posted, those signs apply to everything beyond the sign. So if they are posted at a door to the mall, then everything inside is off limits. If they are posted at the entrance to a parking lot, then even the parking lot is off limits (as well as everything beyond it - including the mall).

I've never encountered the situation, but I thought 30.06 only applies to premises, defined as buildings and surrounding structures. I always assumed that meant parking lots were OK. Guess I was wrong?[/b]

From what I understand, Syntax360, you're right, except when it is the parking lot itself that is posted.

IANAL, but I have heard that you can get around this to a degree by disarming and storing your weapon in the trunk before you enter said parking lot; since it is no longer on your person, you're not carrying a firearm. You're not armed while in the parking lot or in the mall, but you can stop and re-arm once you've left.

Hickeroar, at what malls have you seen these 30.06 signs at parking lot entrances? I have yet to see a 30.06 sign at a mall other than Grapevine/Katy Mills malls, and those were only on the mall entrances, not the parking lot entrances (and also not on the entrances through a retail shop, only the entrances directly into the mall).

I have yet to see a posted parking lot but unless I am going to be receiving money/doing business at that location then I will turn around and go elsewhere. There are malls that arent posted that would be happy to take my money.

Syntax360 wrote:I've never encountered the situation, but I thought 30.06 only applies to premises, defined as buildings and surrounding structures. I always assumed that meant parking lots were OK. Guess I was wrong?[/b]

This is a common misunderstanding. The definition of premises that excludes parking lots only applies to places list in Penal Code 46.03 and 46.035.

The exclusion of parking lots does not apply to other private property.

A private property owner can post 30.06 in parking lots and 30.06 becomes off limits for concealed carry.

barres wrote:Hickeroar, at what malls have you seen these 30.06 signs at parking lot entrances? I have yet to see a 30.06 sign at a mall other than Grapevine/Katy Mills malls, and those were only on the mall entrances, not the parking lot entrances (and also not on the entrances through a retail shop, only the entrances directly into the mall).

I haven't personally seen it but I've heard that the Galleria in Dallas has their lots posted as well as some other malls in the area. The Parks mall in Arlington which is about 5 miles from me is not posted at all, so theres no reason to go anywhere else.

Wait a minute, We need more info here.

Even my CHL instructor (retired Austin PD) said that you could carry onto any parking lot.

If it isnt gated or entry restricted, how can it be private?

He specifically mentioned 30.06 signs in parking lots and how they were not legal.

Anyone got any more info?

Any private property can be posted with a 30.06 sign, including a parking lot. Governmental entities cannot use 30.06 to make their property off-limits to CHL's, whether the property is a building or a parking lot. (There are some limited exceptions.)

We have to remember that "premises" is defined in 46.03 and 46.035 to include only buildings and portions of buildings, but expressly excludes parking lots. This sometimes causes confusion when we deal with trespass laws under 30.06, since premises isn't narrowly defined in 30.06 or 30.05.

Regards,
Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: We have to remember that "premises" is defined in 46.03 and 46.035 to include only buildings and portions of buildings, but expressly excludes parking lots.
Regards,
Chas.

So then a Mall "cannot" prohibit carrying onto a parking lot even if 30.06 signs are posted there?

dihappy wrote:So then a Mall "cannot" prohibit carrying onto a parking lot even if 30.06 signs are posted there?

I think you may have missed the second half of Chas' post. It explains this situation.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:We have to remember that "premises" is defined in 46.03 and 46.035 to include only buildings and portions of buildings, but expressly excludes parking lots. This sometimes causes confusion when we deal with trespass laws under 30.06, since premises isn't narrowly defined in 30.06 or 30.05.

Regards,
Chas.

The definition of "premises" in 46.03 and 46.035(which excludes parking lots from "premises") is not the same definition used in 30.06.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Governmental entities cannot use 30.06

(or other verbal/written notices, such as employee policies)

to make their property off-limits to CHL's, whether the property is a building or a parking lot. (There are some limited exceptions.)

...unless that CHL'er is an employee of said governmental entity.

dihappy wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: We have to remember that "premises" is defined in 46.03 and 46.035 to include only buildings and portions of buildings, but expressly excludes parking lots.
Regards,
Chas.

So then a Mall "cannot" prohibit carrying onto a parking lot even if 30.06 signs are posted there?

That is wrong. The only locations where parking lots are not part of the premises are for locations listed in the penal code sections 46.03 and 46.035.

dihappy wrote:Even my CHL instructor (retired Austin PD) said that you could carry onto any parking lot.

If it isnt gated or entry restricted, how can it be private?

Best Buy is private property. Kroger is private property. Your local conveinence store is private property, etc. The can restrict access in any manner they please, including 30.06 signs.

I've only seen one parking lot posted. This is at a customer that I frequently call on. You have to drive past a compliant 30.06 sign to enter the parking lot. The parking lot and entrance/exit are one-way and the sign is positioned so that you must pass it to enter the lot. You are alreay on a private drive in this instance and would have to u-turn in the drive to exit without passing the sign. The lot exit is before the sign. So if you turned in the exit, would you be compliant? Probably not, I leave it at home on those days.

[quote="txinvestigator
Best Buy is private property. Kroger is private property. Your local conveinence store is private property, etc. The can restrict access in any manner they please, including 30.06 signs.[/quote]

?? I thought the only way they can ristrict access is via the 30.06 sign, direct verbal or direct (as opposed to posted) written notice