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I am a new CHL holder, and have a quick scenario that i am looking for advice on.
Last week I was out walking the neighborhood with my wife and child getting some exercise, when a large pit bull came running up behind us.
The dog circled us one time and then stood in front of us growling and barking. We attempted to just ignore it and go around, but the dog seemed
to get closer and more aggressive. I tried to get the dog to leave by yelling and waving my arms about, but the dog never moved. At one point, the dog
got within one arms length of the stroller, where I attempted to kick it away. I did not drive it away, but at least i got the dogs attention away from the stroller and
on to me. Shortly there after, the owner came running down the street to get the dog. The whole thing lasted around 3 - 4 minutes, but it felt like forever.
As we walked away, I got to thinking if I could have done something more had I been carrying. I mean, would I have been justified in stopping such a threat?
Would I have had to wait until the dog physically attacked one of us before stopping it? I mean, this is a 40 lbs dog. If it lunges at my wife, its going to knock her down. At that point, not only would you not have a clear shot, but one bite to the neck..... UGHHH, i hate to think about it. Had I been carrying, I would have preferred to end this situation before the dog got so close.
Would i have been in the wrong for this?

Waiting to see what the consensus is on this one. I know what I have been trained to do (my old man!) just don't know if I would have balked when the image of the jail bars rolled through my head.

To justify the use of deadly force against a person you must feel threatened with the loss of life or bodily harm. I don't see why the threshold would be lower with a dog, and from what you're describing, I'd have felt threatened not only for myself but for my family.

Personally, had I been carrying and the dog moved towards my baby stroller, that decision would have been made then and there - and this from a huge dog lover.

Pit bulls are naturally very friendly animals. They're trained to be aggressive that way. It's a shame.

Kythas wrote:To justify the use of deadly force against a person you must feel threatened with the loss of life or bodily harm. I don't see why the threshold would be lower with a dog, and from what you're describing, I'd have felt threatened not only for myself but for my family.

Personally, had I been carrying and the dog moved towards my baby stroller, that decision would have been made then and there - and this from a huge dog lover.

Pit bulls are naturally very friendly animals. They're trained to be aggressive that way. It's a shame.

This situation had the potential to go very badly very quickly.
In most towns it is illegal to let a dog loose like this.
At the very minimum this should be reported as an aggressive dog encounter and be on record.

"My family's safety was at risk Officer"



I believe you would have been right to end this situation.

Just bite the dog...J/K...As we discussed over the phone -- if I were in fear of my, or my family member's life because of a threat from a human or animal, I will use the necessary force to stop that threat.

I think that way also. A 230gr resolution. However, you know how people get with pets. There would definitely be a back lash. Dog rights people versus pit bull haters versus family protectionist versus excessive force versus discharging weapon in city limits, and on and on...

"I feared for the safety of my family!" is absolutely right IMHO. What bothers me is the split second that I would think in my head that I am going to be at ground zero of a huge cluster....or that that is someone's pet!

My daughter at 7yo had a pit bull get excited b/c a small dog had come in to the area and the PB lunged at the 7yo's face and snapped. She was his height and I am sure that he could not distinguish who was the aggressor and who wasn't. I quickly exhibited to him who was the alpha dog. Man did I get in trouble. My oldest daughters boy friend (his dog) looked at me like why was I trying to crash his dogs head on the cement....and on and on.

Had I been carrying I probably would have eliminated the threat. Hard to say... Just don't put ANY of my kids in danger!

Even as I type this, I wrestle with the way I would resolve this in my mind. My dad was a no bull person and I know exactly what he would have done and that is the way he taught me also.

Help me out forum! I need to get this resolved in my mind in the event I ever face it armed!

Dog-gone-it!

Actually, its really a tough call. There is nothing cut and dried. If the dog is attacking, its fair game. If its growling and snarling, it may not be. Is it advancing? If so, it's bye-bye pooch time.

It is a shame some pet owners are so irresponsible that they let their dogs run wild and put innocent people in a position like that. If you feel threatened it is better to deal with the law later than have yourself or another innocent hurt or killed. Don't do it unless you have to but don't hesitate to defend yourself if necessary. You do not know the dog or its owner or their intentions.

If it is necessary to shoot make sure you immediately call 911 and get a LEO out. An owner that would allow their animal to run free may react badly to that threat being stopped. As in all things CHL and gun related we have little or no guarantee that we will not be slammed for even a legal action. I think it is better to deal with the law than a mad dog or owner.

Just my 2 cents and some random thoughts here.

1) Report it. The owner has to take responsibility for his or her dog. I know that dogs can get out of the control of the owner, but when you have an agressiive hound you really need to be extra vigilant.

2) Buy pepper spray, less deadly but likely to make the point to the dog.

3) Why was your gun at home? Seriously, this could have been a mugger not a pitbull. As someone's tag line on here reads "Carry 24x7 or guess right"

4) I think I would have had to have been there to decide to shoot or not but my inclination would be to stand still, avoid eye contact and keep clam....but have my firearm out and ready and my phone out and dialing. I have seen the damge a dog attack can cause so I would definately draw the gun in readiness.

This topic was cussed and discussed up and down, backwards and forwards, from top to bottom and back, in June and July.

The general consensus was and is.....it depends. It depends because there's no hard and fast rules that govern the killing of animals who are an immediate threat to a person or his family.

If a dog's attacking, obviously you are justified to stop the threat. If it's stalking you, growling at you and baring its teeth....draw your gun and be prepared to use it. If it's standing there in front of you, blocking your way and maybe even growling, that's when the issue becomes dicey and questionable. I certainly would not approach it, or even go around it. Start backing up while still facing it...perhaps. If that diffuses the situation, great. If not, then it's full red alert.

IMO, I would apply what PC 9.32 & PC 9.33 says and would be governed by same. Also, there is a section in Chapter 822 of the Health & Safety Code (Regulations of Animals) that allows the killing of dogs or coyotes:

Sec.822.013.DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS.A (a)
dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently
attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1)any person witnessing the attack; or
(2)the attacked animal ’s owner or a person acting on
behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the
attack.
(b)person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this
section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in
control of the dog or coyote.

I find it odd that the above regulation addresses when dogs attack animals, but not humans. That may be addressed elsewhere in Vernon's Statutes, but I sure don't know where to find it!

NOTE: I'm no lawyer to be sure, and the above is merely my opinion. Just my $.02 worth.

joe817 wrote:This topic was cussed and discussed up and down, backwards and forwards, from top to bottom and back, in June and July.

Oh now come on Joe, that was a different dog!

Kevinf2349 wrote:

joe817 wrote:This topic was cussed and discussed up and down, backwards and forwards, from top to bottom and back, in June and July.

Oh now come on Joe, that was a different dog!

Oh good grief Kevin! Not you too!!

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Kevinf2349 wrote:Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

First dog owner should never let the dog unleashed. Unleashed dog is a threat. Dog can inflict sever bodily injuries. If you are justified in terminating a dog attacking your animals, how about your family or yourself?
I owned a dog at one time, and it would rip you in few seconds if unleashed and my dog assumed that you are a threat to her clan. Nice dog, Jacky a German Shepard.