Another attack in webster by two women

[Aggie_engr]

This is the email that was sent out to students. I personally know a few students who were displaced to the webster/clear lake area due to Ike. What would you guys do? I know it's just a couple women with bats, but would you consider shooting? Maybe just draw and try to scare them off?

All Campus Members,
Crime Alert

On Monday, April 6, 2009 at approximately 6:40pm, officers were dispatched to the Hobby Lobby store located at 20091 IH 45 Freeway in reference to a report of a robbery. Upon arrival, it was determined that victim was robbed by two black females. The suspects approached the victim and demanded her purse, and when she refused the suspects assaulted her with using some type of wooden bat and fists. Suspect #1 is described as being 18-25 years of age, approximately 5’-0” to 5’-6”tall, weighing 115-120 lbs, with a “wild looking unbraided afro”. Suspect #2 is described as being in her 40’s, approximately 5’-6”, and weighing 125-135 lbs, also with a “wild looking unbraided afro”. The suspects then fled the scene in an older gold colored 4 door sedan.

These suspects match the description in two similar robberies which also occurred in Webster, on Wednesday, April 1st. This information can be found online at http://www.cityofwebster.com/index.asp?NID=629" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <http://www.cityofwebster.com/index.asp?NID=629>

Anyone that shops or lives in the Webster area should pay special attention to their surroundings and to anyone who takes a sudden interest in them, while these two are on the loose. If you see something that makes you uneasy, do not hesitate to notify the store manager or store security of your suspicions. At the very least they can escort you to your car and politely check out your suspicions.

It is always a good idea to limit the property in your purse while shopping, so that your whole life is not inside if someone takes it away from you. You won’t feel the need to fight over it, if you know your important stuff is not in it. By keeping your wallet, phone and keys in your pocket and only carrying makeup and other bulky essentials in your purse, you would still be able to call for help, drive home and avoid getting your ID stolen during such a robbery. At the same time, you can avoid getting injured during the event if you give up your purse on demand and look for an opportunity to run. Once you are away from the robbers, scream and yell for others to see what’s happened. Get the best description you can get and look for a license plate number if you see the robbers in a car. Your goal is avoid being a crime victim. But, if you are, you want to get through it without being injured.

Call the police ASAP and give them all that you learned during and after the robbery as soon as you escape from the situation.

Is the highlighted portion of the email good/bad advice???

[stevie_d_64]

What if I do not have a purse...Can I take theirs instead??? I can be pretty convincing...

All kidding aside, I know some people who work in that architectural firm next door, and I also buy stuff from that very hobby store...

That part of El Dorado has really gone ghetto from what I've noticed in the last couple of years...

[seamusTX]

I posted about this when it happened: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 26&t=23922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A decoy purse or wallet may work. However, if a robber has run into the tactic before, or learned about it in crime school (prison), he or she may check the wallet or purse before fleeing.

I've also heard of robbers shooting victims because they were unhappy with the amount of money that they got.

- Jim

[G.C.Montgomery]

This is the email that was sent out to students. I personally know a few students who were displaced to the webster/clear lake area due to Ike. What would you guys do? I know it's just a couple women with bats, but would you consider shooting? Maybe just draw and try to scare them off?...

At 5'0"-5'6" and nothing over 135lbs I am not convinced either could seriously threaten me (6'2"@320lbs) with baseball bats. But if they really were that stupid, I am not into drawing guns just to "scare" people. I'd certainly issue verbal commands to get away from me and I'd probably have some sort of impact weapon (SureFire Defender or closed, folding knife) at the ready. OC would be a good option too. But I'm more likely to take the bat away from some that small. I'm sorry ladies but, if a woman is "man enough" and dumb enough try to rob me in a parking lot with a baseball bat, she's "man enough" to get her bones broken after I take the bat away.

Now if it were larger males armed with bats and I honestly felt they were going to cave in my skull, we'll jump right up to the threat of deadly force. Since we're on the subject, it is worth noting we've had more than one discussion on this forum regarding this issue. The conclusion was that unless you are justified in shooting someone, you probably shouldn't draw at all. IIRC, the 5th District Court of Appeals said as much in their ruling in McDermott's appeal for his 46.035 conviction. Just something to think about. But once again, if I get the bat...I'm gonna a pipeline down the middle of their skull.

...Is the highlighted portion of the email good/bad advice???

There was a time the advice given was wise and greatly increased your chances of survival. But these days, we have morons who will kill you even if you cooperate. Someone mentioned in another thread that robbers had come to a relative's home just to rob the place, not to commit murder and that had they not resisted, those relatives might still be alive. Well, I disagree.

A friend of mine had an employee whose daughter was robbed at gun point in her driveway. She did everything "right" by giving up her purse and offering no resistance. She did everything the "authorities" have always told her to do, including laying down on the ground. And as she lay on the ground, they told her to look away from them so she wouldn't see them as they ran away. But instead, one of the animals pointed a gun at her head and pulled the trigger. By the grace of G_d, the bullet passed through her cheeks rather than her skull. That bullet ruined her smile but not her spirit. I guarantee you that young lady will not be doing as she's told again.

YMMV

[USA1]

i dont shop at hobby lobby , and if i did i would'nt admit it.

[Aggie_engr]

Thanks for the replies! How about take the decoy wallet and just throw it on the ground at your feet and back away a few steps? I've seen a succesful story or two where this tactic was used... It may just give you the time/distraction you need to assess the situation and make a decision on whether to shoot, run, draw and find cover etc.

But I'm more likely to take the bat away from some that small.

I was kind of thinking the same thing.

OC would be a good option too.

I didn't think about it, but OC would be a great option. Maybe one of the longer range kimber guardian angels. Has anyone ever used one? How accurate are they and are they easy to hit the target with?

[ELB]

I would figure any assault with a baseball bat is deadly force; I don't care how big I am and how small they are. One crack on the skull or across the chest could easily be lights out.

As for being compliant? No thanks. Each situation is different, but I do not believe that the statistics support being cooperative.

I drew the following from John Lott's website: http://johnrlott.tripod.com/other/NCVS.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Discussion by Brian Blase

The National Crime Victimization (NCV) Survey from part of the 1990s (extracted from Table 7.1 of Armed by Gary Kleck and Don Kates) shows injury rates (pre-self protection and post- self protection) for crime victims who take a variety of self protective actions. The actions range from attacking the offender with a gun to yelling at offender and turning on lights to taking no self protection measures at all. A recent improvement in the NCV Survey allows analysts to separately identify injuries inflicted after the victim engaged in some form of self-protection. When investigating whether the self-protection measures are effective at reducing the likelihood of injury, it is necessary to compare the post-self protection injury rates for the different strategies with the injury rate when no self protection measure is taken.

Taking the examples of confrontational robbery and assault shows an interesting story. After the self-protection method was employed, the rate of sustaining injury or further injury was lower in every instance than was the rate of sustaining injury when no self-protection measure was employed at all. Note that aggravated assaults are much more common than robbery. Data covering a longer period of time makes an even stronger case for defensive gun use.


Percent Injured after Self Protection Action
...................................................Robbery........Assault

Any SP with gun ...................................7.7%......... 3.6%

Chased, tried to catch ............................9.6% .........9.0%

Ran/drove away; tried to .........................4.9% .........5.4%

Screamed from pain, fear ........................22.0% ........12.6%

Threatened without weapon ...................15.8% ........13.6%

No SP measures at all ..............................23.6% .........55.2%

In other words, your chances of being injured in an assault or robbery are far greater if you do nothing than if you do something.

elb

[jimlongley]

A club is still a deadly weapon.

[BTin]

I would figure any assault with a baseball bat is deadly force; I don't care how big I am and how small they are. One crack on the skull or across the chest could easily be lights out.

As for being compliant? No thanks. Each situation is different, but I do not believe that the statistics support being cooperative.

I drew the following from John Lott's website: http://johnrlott.tripod.com/other/NCVS.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Discussion by Brian Blase

The National Crime Victimization (NCV) Survey from part of the 1990s (extracted from Table 7.1 of Armed by Gary Kleck and Don Kates) shows injury rates (pre-self protection and post- self protection) for crime victims who take a variety of self protective actions. The actions range from attacking the offender with a gun to yelling at offender and turning on lights to taking no self protection measures at all. A recent improvement in the NCV Survey allows analysts to separately identify injuries inflicted after the victim engaged in some form of self-protection. When investigating whether the self-protection measures are effective at reducing the likelihood of injury, it is necessary to compare the post-self protection injury rates for the different strategies with the injury rate when no self protection measure is taken.

Taking the examples of confrontational robbery and assault shows an interesting story. After the self-protection method was employed, the rate of sustaining injury or further injury was lower in every instance than was the rate of sustaining injury when no self-protection measure was employed at all. Note that aggravated assaults are much more common than robbery. Data covering a longer period of time makes an even stronger case for defensive gun use.


Percent Injured after Self Protection Action
...................................................Robbery........Assault

Any SP with gun ...................................7.7%......... 3.6%

Chased, tried to catch ............................9.6% .........9.0%

Ran/drove away; tried to .........................4.9% .........5.4%

Screamed from pain, fear ........................22.0% ........12.6%

Threatened without weapon ...................15.8% ........13.6%

No SP measures at all ..............................23.6% .........55.2%

In other words, your chances of being injured in an assault or robbery are far greater if you do nothing than if you do something.

elb

Thanks for posting this! This is a great tool to show objectively that guns are meant to protect people when in the right hands! This blows the whole "guns are nothing but trouble" theory out of the water!

[gemini]

2 women, 5'6" & 135# +/-, swinging baseball bats at my head? What part of that scenario isn't
a potentially deadly act? I've watched plenty of girls softball games, and I can tell you they can
not only "slap" hit, they can swing for the fence.

[wcb]

If I was carrying, and 1 or 2 of anyone welding a bat while trying to rob me, would be shot. No warning shot, no "stop", just as many shots as required to stop the situation. I would lower my gun as the Police arrived to take control/statements...

[03Lightningrocks]

I've also heard of robbers shooting victims because they were unhappy with the amount of money that they got.

- Jim

Based on that I am a dead man if I ever get robbed.

[dicion]

I've also heard of robbers shooting victims because they were unhappy with the amount of money that they got.

- Jim

Based on that I am a dead man if I ever get robbed.

You'd think this would be more and more common, as less and less people carry cash.
Personally, when I'm out working in the field, I carry only what I need. ID, 1 of my debit cards, and thats it.
(That way I'm not lying to the 58674589538967 bums that harass me for change daily when I say 'I don't carry cash out here')
That way if I do get robbed, I only have to worry about calling to cancel 1 card.

[03Lightningrocks]

Suspect #1 is described as being 18-25 years of age, approximately 5’-0” to 5’-6”tall, weighing 115-120 lbs, with a “wild looking unbraided afro”. Suspect #2 is described as being in her 40’s, approximately 5’-6”, and weighing 125-135 lbs, also with a “wild looking unbraided afro”.

I'm not sure I wouldn't start laughing if these two told me to give them my money.



It is always a good idea to limit the property in your purse while shopping, so that your whole life is not inside if someone takes it away from you. You won’t feel the need to fight over it, if you know your important stuff is not in it. By keeping your wallet, phone and keys in your pocket and only carrying makeup and other bulky essentials in your purse, you would still be able to call for help, drive home and avoid getting your ID stolen during such a robbery. At the same time, you can avoid getting injured during the event if you give up your purse on demand and look for an opportunity to run. Once you are away from the robbers, scream and yell for others to see what’s happened. Get the best description you can get and look for a license plate number if you see the robbers in a car. Your goal is avoid being a crime victim. But, if you are, you want to get through it without being injured.

Call the police ASAP and give them all that you learned during and after the robbery as soon as you escape from the situation.

Wow!!! A whole paragraph telling you how to be a well behaved victim. Not me jack....they threaten me with ball bats and I am going to figure they aren't playing around. Being threatened with violence removes any doubts I have about what must be done next.

[03Lightningrocks]

I've also heard of robbers shooting victims because they were unhappy with the amount of money that they got.

- Jim

Based on that I am a dead man if I ever get robbed.

You'd think this would be more and more common, as less and less people carry cash.
Personally, when I'm out working in the field, I carry only what I need. ID, 1 of my debit cards, and thats it.
(That way I'm not lying to the 58674589538967 bums that harass me for change daily when I say 'I don't carry cash out here')
That way if I do get robbed, I only have to worry about calling to cancel 1 card.

Yeah, that's me. I just use my debit card. It seems the whole world takes them these days. I usually don't carry cash at all. Maybe I should start carrying "mugger money" so I don't get shot...LOL. Wonder how much... 20 bucks? Or would that just get me shot quicker for teasing them?