TexasCHLforum.com

This incident happened yesterday here in Brazos County involving a CHL holder. http://www.theeagle.com/local/Neighbor- ... rural-area I don't yet know if he will be charged with any offense. It sounds like the Sheriff thinks he was within his rights to protect himself, although it would be up to the Grand Jury if it is referred.

I understand him wanting to help out. I would want to. However, the legal issues invovled with helping someone these days unfortunately outway the benefits to help, unless it's life or death.

In a dynamic critical situation, what have you been trained to say or NOT to say to an attacker? I know every situation is different but what do you think would be your first words, if any, to an attacker?

Maybe he shouldn't have said he had a gun, but otherwise I don't see any problem here. He shot when he was attacked with a car, not before, and that car clearly was deadly force.

????????

Why not? Looks good to me.

Ok, maybe I over did it with the title. I'm not picking on this guy, actually what I was getting at has little to do with this story.

I've only been through the CHL class once so I don't know if all the materials are the same. In the teaching materials for the class I was in, there were suggestions of things NOT to say like "Hey, what is your problem?" or "Your messing with wrong dude" or anything that might make YOU the aggressor.

I'm really looking for suggestions of proper verbal tactics during a situation. Maybe it's in a book somewhere or they teach that in Defensive Handgun classes?

its a sad world. not only are there an abundance of BGs but now the GGs are thinking twice about helping their neighbors in a time like this due to the legal consequences. why carry if your not willing to protect you and your neighbors?

kudos to this man for doing the right thing and protecting his neighbor and his neighborhood!

Telling the BG to stop is good. Telling them to drop their weapon is also good, even if you don't see a weapon. Telling the BG to back off or stay back is good. Keeping it simple and clear is good. From the article, it really sounds like this guy said the right thing.

Mentioning the gun might not be wise because it might be considered a threat with a deadly weapon. But in this case, I don't think it will make any difference.

Only problem I see is that the thief is still vertical and among the living.

-Cain

stroo wrote:Maybe he shouldn't have said he had a gun, but otherwise I don't see any problem here. He shot when he was attacked with a car, not before, and that car clearly was deadly force.

Only problem I have is aiming at tires.... was he thinking "gee, that will stop a 2 ton auto?" or what? Not sure I follow this line of thinking, when faced with someone trying to back over me in their car and attempting to escape after committing B&E & burglary of a habitation? I do think that a bad situation could have been made alot worse by the older woman and grandson entering the house and the BG's inside. Glad the CHL'er and burglary victims were not physically harmed.
I have not been able to find the: 1. Stop or I'll shoot. 2. Stop I have a gun. 3. Drop your weapon. 4. Your're a naughty boy etc etc
in the PC. A charging car IS a deadly weapon, just like a gun, knife, 2x4, baseball bat ..... I will not draw my weapon in a deadly force situation unless I fully intend to use it. Maybe the CHL'er had not thought out when and what he had personally decided his actions would be, faced with deadly force.......then again, maybe shooting out tires is his decided course of action.

I like the texas announce:

blam blabm blam blam blam blam blam blam....stop or I will reload

Shooting at tires is generally ineffective, especially with a slow moving big round like the .45 ACP.

If you shoot at the tread rather than the sidewalls, it's highly unlikely the bullet from a .45 will even penetrate.

It generally doesn't matter what you say or yell, as far as the BG is concerned. Most of them are going to do one of three things:

Flee
Ignore you and continue with their activity
Attack

Very few are going to put their hands up and surrender, especially to a civilian.

The concern for what you say, therefore, is simply for after-effect in front of a prosecutor or jury. Short and to the point is best if you are compelled through personal morals to issue a verbal warning.

I prefer "Stop or I will defend myself!"

If you are threatened with deadly force, you have no legal obligation to issue a warning of any kind before you respond with deadly force. The reason most of us feel compelled to give verbal warnings is due to our desire not to harm someone and the hope that a verbal warning will cause them to stop their threatening activity before we have to pull the trigger.

I think the best action is to keep our mouths shut and shoot if we have to...and then keep our mouths shut again until we are alone with our attorney.

The only thing a verbal warning does is give away a CHL holders ability to surprise a bad guy. I am also one who believes that if I am legally able to pull I am legally able to stop. I would fight the temptation to be "fair" because it is in my nature to look for any way to avoid violence. That is why it is absolutely necessary to decide before we get into these situations on the general rules of engagement. A+B=SHOOT, A-B=WAIT TO SHOOT and in my thinking that is the only two options that are available in any given situation. If the situation deescalates when the BG backs off or puts down a weapon or runs away or a LEO arrives then it is back to looking for possible danger. Whatever happens I hope I can keep my mouth shut and wait to see if I am going to be forced to stop someone. I would not be shooting warning shots or at tires either.

tfrazier wrote:Shooting at tires is generally ineffective, especially with a slow moving big round like the .45 ACP.

If you shoot at the tread rather than the sidewalls, it's highly unlikely the bullet from a .45 will even penetrate.

It generally doesn't matter what you say or yell, as far as the BG is concerned. Most of them are going to do one of three things:

Flee
Ignore you and continue with their activity
Attack

Very few are going to put their hands up and surrender, especially to a civilian.

The concern for what you say, therefore, is simply for after-effect in front of a prosecutor or jury. Short and to the point is best if you are compelled through personal morals to issue a verbal warning.

I prefer "Stop or I will defend myself!"

If you are threatened with deadly force, you have no legal obligation to issue a warning of any kind before you respond with deadly force. The reason most of us feel compelled to give verbal warnings is due to our desire not to harm someone and the hope that a verbal warning will cause them to stop their threatening activity before we have to pull the trigger.

I think the best action is to keep our mouths shut and shoot if we have to...and then keep our mouths shut again until we are alone with our attorney.

This is some very good advise. If you say anything keep it as little as possible...a shout "STOP" and say it like you mean it, say it with all the force within you. Don't ask him to stop...command him to stop.

The only other thing that bothers me is the shooting at the tires...never draw your weapon unless you are in imminent danger of death, therefore, if you are justified to draw...shoot to stop the perpetrator: not the car.

I am not criticizing the man it the op he was a good samaritan looking out for his neighbors.
We all need to look out for each other.

-geo

dewayneward wrote:I like the texas announce:

blam blabm blam blam blam blam blam blam....stop or I will reload

I would recommend reloading anyway after 8 shots...I kinda have to...

stevie_d_64 wrote:

dewayneward wrote:I like the texas announce:

blam blabm blam blam blam blam blam blam....stop or I will reload

I would recommend reloading anyway after 8 shots...I kinda have to...

Ha ha!! Me to, I am a 8+1 mag guy. My hi-point 9mm wont go much bigger and still conceal.

FWIW, there was some discussion about this subject a few months ago: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=20631.