Driving around with my gun without a CHL. In plain English.

[propellerhead]

I have read multiple threads on here about driving around with your gun in the car and not having a CHL. There's a lot of legalese in the threads and I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

Without a CHL, I can drive to the range and back with my gun in the trunk. In fact, I can stop for gas along the way and maybe pick up some groceries on the way home. Take the long way around. Stop at my buddy's house. This is all legal as long as I meet the five criteria listed below:

1. I'm in a privately owned vehicle. Not a public bus, taxi or train. I can be in my friend's private vehicle though.

2. I am allowed by law to have the gun. I just bought this gun last month and nothing has changed. I'm sure I meet this one.

3. The gun is not in plain view. I always have it in it's original case, with a padlock in a backpack in the trunk when I'm going to/from the gun range. The ammo is also in the backpack. I don't bother putting the ammo in the glove box.

4. I am not involved in a crime. I'm not a getaway car for some bank robbery or I'm not out selling dope. Traffic violations don't count.

5. I am not a gang member. No tattoos. No "colors". No gang signs flashed with my fingers all crooked.

If I get stopped for some traffic violation and the LEO finds out about the gun, I can still get arrested, cuffed and taken to jail. However, a LEO will probably not arrest me unless he/she feels that I do not meet one of the five conditions stated above. Because if I meet all five conditions, the DA will most likely throw out the case and that's not good for the LEO.

So, is my understanding correct? Close? Far off?

Thanks.


Disclaimer: Yes, I realize all this is so much simpler if I have a CHL. I do plan on getting one. For now, I want to make sure I'm not breaking the law or putting myself in a situation where I might spend the night in jail.

[nitrogen]

looks good to me.
the main things (and someone else correct me if i'm wrong)
* The gun cannot be readily available. This usually means locked in a trunk, or in a trunkless vehicle, locked in a case where the driver can't grab it.

* The gun must be unloaded.

I'm not sure about the private vehicle thing. As far as I know, you're allowed to transport firearms on some public vehicles, but you might have to follow additional rules, like declare the firearm, fill out a form, etc. I think it's up to the agency that runs the vehicles.
Even if it's legal, which i'm not sure about, prudence might dictate otherwise.

[Paladin]

looks good to me.
the main things (and someone else correct me if i'm wrong)
* The gun cannot be readily available. This usually means locked in a trunk, or in a trunkless vehicle, locked in a case where the driver can't grab it.

* The gun must be unloaded.

I'm not sure about the private vehicle thing. As far as I know, you're allowed to transport firearms on some public vehicles, but you might have to follow additional rules, like declare the firearm, fill out a form, etc. I think it's up to the agency that runs the vehicles.
Even if it's legal, which i'm not sure about, prudence might dictate otherwise.

The old law said that a handgun could not be 'on or about' your person. Which was interpreted as within reach. So the car trunk was okay.

There was no legal distinction about loaded vs. unloaded.

The new law is a whole 'nother ball game... and there's no easy advice on it... besides the fact that it's better to have a CHL.

[nitrogen]

looks good to me.
the main things (and someone else correct me if i'm wrong)
* The gun cannot be readily available. This usually means locked in a trunk, or in a trunkless vehicle, locked in a case where the driver can't grab it.

* The gun must be unloaded.

I'm not sure about the private vehicle thing. As far as I know, you're allowed to transport firearms on some public vehicles, but you might have to follow additional rules, like declare the firearm, fill out a form, etc. I think it's up to the agency that runs the vehicles.
Even if it's legal, which i'm not sure about, prudence might dictate otherwise.

The old law said that a handgun could not be 'on or about' your person. Which was interpreted as within reach. So the car trunk was okay.

There was no legal distinction about loaded vs. unloaded.

The new law is a whole 'nother ball game... and there's no easy advice on it... besides the fact that it's better to have a CHL.

I mentioned unloaded as to not get into the whole "traveling" mess.
But now we're getting into legalese...

[Cosmo 9]

If stopped by the LE don't wait for them to "find out" tell them up front that you are going to or coming from the range and you have a weapon in the vehicle and where it is. If you were on the that side of door you would want to know.

[propellerhead]

looks good to me.

Thanks.

The new law is a whole 'nother ball game... and there's no easy advice on it... besides the fact that it's better to have a CHL.

Thanks. I'm workin' on it. See disclaimer in my original post. I'm concerned about today and up to the day I have the CHL in my hand. It's a little inconvenient to reschedule everything to make my trip is strictly home->range->home. I still do that and will continue to do so to minimize exposure. I just wanted to know if it was legal to have a short side trip or two.

If stopped by the LE don't wait for them to "find out" tell them up front that you are going to or coming from the range and you have a weapon in the vehicle and where it is. If you were on the that side of door you would want to know.

Thanks. That's a whole 'nother topic/thread. :)

[nemesis]

Without a CHL, I can drive to the range and back with my gun in the trunk. In fact, I can stop for gas along the way and maybe pick up some groceries on the way home. Take the long way around. Stop at my buddy's house. This is all legal as long as I meet the five criteria listed below:

I believe you can drive anywhere with a box of guns in your trunk and legally stop to purchase groceries or visit friends. I can't think of any restrictions there. Texas law, however, makes no distinction regarding whether guns are loaded or not.

The law restricts transporting guns when they are "on or about your person" and that means somewhere within reach. Loaded or not. If you are unlicensed and have a gun "on or about your person", you can go directly to and from the range but I doubt that shopping and visiting would be acceptable.

[txinvestigator]

Let me see if I can help.

Texas makes no law distinction between loaded and unloaded. Period.

Texas law basically says that a person cannot carry a handgun on or about his person, period. (called unlawful carrying weapons) Concealed or not, loaded or not. Violation is a class A misdemeanor, unless you carry where alcohol is served, then it is a felony.

Period

Case law has established that on r about your person means within your immediate access, and includes the passanger compartment of motor vehicles. Locked in your trunk is NOT "about your person", so if you keep a handgun in your trunk you are not in violation of unlawful carrying weapons.


There are several exceptions to that law. If you are on your own premises or premises under your control, then you are exempt. You can carry concealed or not, loaded or not.

If you are Traveling, you are exempt. I will cover traveling later.

If you are engaged in lawful hunting or fishing, and the handgun is comonly used in that activity (like gun range shooting) then you are exempt while engaged in the activity or traveling to or from. Although with this exemption, you can have the weapon on your person even while traveling to or from the range, I always tell people to secure the handgun while going to and from the range. If you are stopped by the police it could be difficult to show you are going to or from the range.

If you are a commissioned security officer and meet several requirements, you are exempt from UCW.

If you have a CHL and meet those requirements, then you ae exempt.

If you have any specific questions I'll be happy to answer those too.

[txinvestigator]

Traveling:

Texas does NOT define traveling. Remember, if you are traveling, you are exempt from UCW. Period.

Now the law says that a person is PRESUMED to be traveling if the person meets all of the following;

the person is in a private motor vehicle

the handgun is concealed

the person is not engaged at the time in criminal activity of a class B or higher

the person is not part of a street gang

the person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a handgun.


If you meet those, you are PRESUMED to be traveling. If you are traveling, you are exempt from UCW. Period.

Be aware some lefty prosecutors have said they will still file on a person who meets those requirements.

[Diode]

Case law has established that on r about your person means within your immediate access, and includes the passanger compartment of motor vehicles. Locked in your trunk is NOT "about your person", so if you keep a handgun in your trunk you are not in violation of unlawful carrying weapons.

Hmmm, So my 3 handguns in my Range bag in my front floor board of my single cab Pick-up puts me in violation of the law.... interesting!

Come on CHL.........

[gigag04]

Hmmm, So my 3 handguns in my Range bag in my front floor board of my single cab Pick-up puts me in violation of the law.... interesting!

See above post on traveling.

[Diode]

Hmmm, So my 3 handguns in my Range bag in my front floor board of my single cab Pick-up puts me in violation of the law.... interesting!

See above post on traveling.

But running to the range is not traveling....

[gigag04]

Here we go again:

Now the law says that a person is PRESUMED to be traveling if the person meets all of the following;

the person is in a private motor vehicle

the handgun is concealed

the person is not engaged at the time in criminal activity of a class B or higher

the person is not part of a street gang

the person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a handgun.


If you meet those, you are PRESUMED to be traveling. If you are traveling, you are exempt from UCW. Period.

I will further define "period":

Period means this applies:


on the way to work.

home from work.

to the store.

to the bank.

to the mall.

to the restuarant.

to the gun range

If they are in a gun bag, that is "out of plain view" as far as I can tell. It sounds like you are meeting the requirements to be presumed travelling I'm missing something. You also have a possible exemption w/ "lawful activity" but I think traveling exemption is stronger. What's the hang up?

[propellerhead]

But running to the range is not traveling....

The way I understand it is no matter where you are going, as long as you meet the 5 items above, you are good to go.

[txinvestigator]

Hmmm, So my 3 handguns in my Range bag in my front floor board of my single cab Pick-up puts me in violation of the law.... interesting!

See above post on traveling.

But running to the range is not traveling....

No, running to the range is not traveling. It is traveling to or from a lawful sporting activity in which the hadgun is commonly used; therefore, you are exempt from UCW. Read my first post in this thread for a warning though.