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Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:15 am
by zbordas
Interesting article about workplace carry.

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By Dave Fehling / 11 News

HOUSTON—Are your coworkers armed?

At a small company off the Beltway, employees fired back when a mentally ill woman who was supposedly looking to kill her father shot a worker with an arrow.

Video

Dave Fehling's 11 News report
February 2, 2009 View larger E-mail Clip More Video Two coworkers there had their own handguns -- and permits to carry them – when the woman arrived.

A blog purportedly written by one of the armed workers described the scene.

“She charges out of the (conference room) and my boss unloads his (handgun) on her, 6 rounds,” the blog read.

Gun proponents say this is what the Texas Concealed Handgun Law is for: allowing properly screened and trained citizens to protect themselves.

But are guns a good idea at work?

Many companies say no. Houston-based Conoco-Phillips is among them.

Conoco-Phillips not only bans guns in the office, but also in company parking lots. That rule has led to lawsuits in Oklahoma.

But could armed workers have protected themselves two years ago at the Space Center when a disgruntled worker smuggled in a gun, killed a coworker and held another hostage before shooting himself?

With companies laying off people by the thousands, some corporations are questioning their gun policies. Sometimes the answers they’re getting are surprising.

“If they call me and say, ‘Should we prohibit handguns?’ I do not automatically say, ‘Yes, of course,’” Tim McInturf of the Littler Law Firm said.

In Texas, unless a company specifically prohibits it, there’s nothing illegal about packing a weapon at work.

In fact, 11 News found at least one case in which a group of Houston business executives were actually advised to start carrying guns.

“We actually sent the executives to get trained on handguns, to apply for licenses,” McInturf said.

McInturf advised the executives to arm themselves after a worker they laid off threatened to kill his bosses.

He said with the recession in full swing, it’s not uncommon for companies to call saying they’ve been threatened by workers who’ve lost their jobs.

In those cases, McInturf said it can make sense for employees to be armed so they can protect themselves.

Jim Oliver, a Houston dad who used to own a software company, said he always respected Texans’ right to arm themselves – that is, until last month.

It was Oliver’s stepdaughter, Julie Parker, who was shot in the Houston office off the Beltway.

Parker survived the ordeal.

“I read his blog and he was very cavalier about it. Almost bragging, “ Parker said.

Parker’s family said they fear some armed office workers might be too quick to draw their weapons and use deadly force.

“It’s not something to be cavalier about,” Oliver said.
If you have a minute post your comment at the bottom.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:17 am
by casingpoint
properly screened and trained citizens to protect themselves
That is not what the Framers wrote into the Bill of Rights, second paragraph. It just mentioned The People. Nothing about a special class of folks. Apparently the Framers considered the citizens competent with arms, and if they were not, well that is the best that can be done. And that sets the bar, like it or not.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:32 pm
by Dave01
zbordas wrote:
Jim Oliver, a Houston dad who used to own a software company, said he always respected Texans’ right to arm themselves – that is, until last month.

It was Oliver’s stepdaughter, Julie Parker, who was shot in the Houston office off the Beltway.

Parker survived the ordeal.
If you actually respect a right, then you do so regardless of your individual involvement in a particular incident. There can be no "exclusions" for family and friends. In the video attached to the link, the step father said he feels the CHL's were not justified in shooting, especially because she was mentally handicapped. It's likely they may not have even known this fact. Regardless, once you purposely put an arrow into someones chest, you've just kissed your right to "not be shot at" goodbye. No excuses.

Dave

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:37 pm
by mr.72
No kidding. This is ludicrous!

Someone comes in a building and starts shooting arrows at people and somehow this dude thinks the people being shot at are out of line to shoot back? Simply crazy.

I certainly am sympathetic that the woman's father feels that she was mentally ill and maybe was not in her right mind when she did this, and that given his impression of how she would have acted if she had been in her right mind, he presumes she didn't deserve to be shot. But this is his daughter. Of course he is extremely biased. Even if there was a Jumbotron behind this woman that said "don't shoot, she's mentally ill, she doesn't really mean to hurt you", the shooting would still be justified.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:55 pm
by Purplehood
If we had "way-back machines" or she had worn a sign on her forehead stating "I am crazy, don't shoot!" then I could agree with Mr. Step-Dad. Unfortunately those two luxuries were not available to the CHL-holders involved.

I guess it is okay to walk around looking like a pin-cushion if you were shot by someone out of their mind, vs. someone that is sane. Oh wait, isn't someone shooting at you in the first place at least temporarily insane?

Sorry. My mind wanders.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:36 pm
by Keith B
It's the woman's Step-Father. I doubt you will find too many family members saying she should have been shot fro her actions. I always disregard comments from family, and then really subject comments from friends and acquaintances to a lot of scrutiny.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:44 pm
by shootthesheet
If she is a nut job like her stepfather said, he and her family are directly responsible for what she did that day. If it was not her fault then it was his and not the CHL holders. Self-defense is not a crime and to say otherwise brings me to believe the step-daughter is not the only mentally ill person in that family.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:30 pm
by CleverNickname
You're just as dead if a crazy person who really doesn't mean it shoots you vs. a criminal who fully intends to harm you shoots you.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:48 pm
by Captain Matt
Let me see if I have the details right. She wanted to kill her father. Her step-father is angry she was stopped. What a family!

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:00 pm
by bdickens
Since she was a homicidal nut case, she should have been put away in an institution, Mr. Stepfather.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:26 pm
by Fangs
I agree with crazy lady's stepdad - It isn't something that should be bragged about... for the CHLer's sake as much and the family's feelings. Now that's not to say that if I were in the CHLer's position I wouldn't write the same thing (although, as I find myself doing more often than not, I'd probably not post it after a re-read).

I agree with everyone else that a bullet (and an arrow) is just as lethal, albeit not as accurate, from me, you, grandma, crazy lady, my 6-year-old little brother, or my cat (if he were still alive, and could fire a weapon).

It's easy to say that your dear darling mentally handicapped stepdaughter shouldn't have been shot after the fact. No one there, at the time, knew if she was retarded (sorry) or an olympic marksman (Markswoman? One of them shot arrows in my church once as a demonstration...idk). The CHLers in this instance acted appropriately. The crazy lady didn't.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:27 pm
by bayou_chl
I watched this on the news last night. I enjoyed parts of the segment and others made me furious. I loved the company that decided to send executives to get training and recommended that they get CHLs. Its nice to know that some companies have a little common sense. It sounds like that company is thinking ahead and planning for the worse. :txflag:

I am furious about the guy who decided to blog about shooting at the bow and arrow girl. As much as it pains me to say this, you can act well within your rights but the only thing that will matter is perception. The employees with guns were 100% right, morally and legally. However, we all know her family doesnt feel the same way. She has been charged with Aggravated Assault and will likely want a trial. She will likely say that she had some mental illness so she didnt know what she was doing. We all know that is a load of bull but it happens at the courthouse everyday. The focus should be on her shooting at people not on the statements made by the people who had not choice but to defend themselves. I expect to hear more about this in the news.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:33 am
by Rayden
Maybe I can't read but it didn't seem the blogger was actually the guy that fired the shots.
“She charges out of the (conference room) and my boss unloads his (handgun) on her, 6 rounds,” the blog read.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:18 am
by 03Lightningrocks
Rayden wrote:Maybe I can't read but it didn't seem the blogger was actually the guy that fired the shots.
“She charges out of the (conference room) and my boss unloads his (handgun) on her, 6 rounds,” the blog read.
One of the guys involved posted about it all as soon as he got home. i saw the posts. he was definitely posting more info than I think he should have posted. His posts where all taken down by the next day when I went to get my drama fix on arfcom. he didn't seem to be bragging so much as to be looking for some kind of friendly confirmation that he was still a good guy. Most of the fellers there were just telling him he did good and what not. The quote above was from the posts....I think they may be calling that forum a blog. There was no bragging at all...IMHO. Just a freaked out guy posting way too much lawyer bait.

Oh...and your right. the guy posting was not the guy who shot her but he did fire several rounds at her head that missed. He said he was trying to keep her pinned down by firing over her head...LOL. Thank goodness none of his stray rounds killed an innocent bystander.

Re: Interesting article about workplace carry.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:43 am
by 03Lightningrocks
I do feel it necessary to make one comment. If a bow and arrow were so efficient at holding off two guys with guns, we would all be wearing feathers instead of cowboy hats. :coolgleamA:

The part about the whole deal that made me go hummmm, was that this gal must be one big bruiser of a woman. I have bow hunted and I can't load an arrow quick enough to draw and fire at someone to keep from getting knock down. Once the first arrow was fired, what you have is a woman standing there with a bow in her hand. Why didn't one of those guys just knock her out? One of them even had time to run out to his car, get his gun and come back in shooting. Legally it may be a good shoot, but I can't see myself blasting a gun at this chick in the same situation. i would have charged this crazy broad and hit her like a linebacker. She would have woke up three days later and not known her name...LOL.