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Couple of questions:

1) Is the Toyota Center posted 30.06?

2) Is the Toyota Center owned by City of Houston or privately owned?

Going to a concert there tonight, so the sports clause doesn't apply, just wondering if it's legally posted or not. Thanks!

-Burgi

At last report it is posted, it is owned by the city of Houston, and they don't care about the law.

They have metal detectors at some events.

- Jim

Not sure of any of that, but if it's a concert at a major venue like Toyota Center, I'd expect to see some security folks with wands. That sure wouldn't give me warm fuzzies.

I have only been there for the Dinosaur show and it was posted (illegal posting) but no searches or detectors.

So what happens if it's not posted and they have metal detectors, they find a LEGALLY carried gun, now what? Verbal you can't carry here?

-Cain

Most likely.

I think most CHL holders would say something to their palm and go back to their car when they saw the metal detectors.

- Jim

CainA wrote:So what happens if it's not posted and they have metal detectors, they find a LEGALLY carried gun, now what? Verbal you can't carry here?

-Cain

Legally speaking, they would be in the wrong. The center is government-owned property, and according to TPC 30.05, you cannot be charged with trespass solely for the reason that you are carrying a handgun under authority of your CHL. The only legal way to deny you from the premises is to charge you with trespass, and it does not apply in this situation. If you had the time and money to make a stink, you could perhaps make a case in court, but few of us have that luxury.

Practically speaking, you're not going to get in if this happens. The legal hurdles needed to overcome this are too great for the average person, and I have not heard of it going as far as a courthouse. One of the more public instances of this kind of problem was the State Fair, where CHL holders were barred from entry (on government property) because they had a handgun. There was some grassroots pressure (and I'm sure quite a bit of dialog behind the scenes between more influential individuals with the authorities outside the courts), and the issue was corrected without a court case. Due to the corporate interest in venues like the Toyota Center, I think a court battle is the only way this issue is going to be cleared up.

Thanks for the clarification(or confusion ) I wasn't trying to steal your thread, but I was like, ok, no signs and metal detectors, hmmmm.

-Cain

so "technically" if the metal detector alarms while you are wearing your smart carry and you say you have a metal hip, then everything is good right?

If you claimed to have a metal hip, then you can bet they will do more checking. I wouldnt lie to them, I'd say I'm a CHL holder, and I'm carrying. All the can do is tell you that you cant come in.. If it's not posted, or posted illegally then the only thing left is a verbal, or they say come on in ( 99.9% chance they wont say that )...

It is amazing how right we are when this particular issue comes up whether it is the Toyota Center or any other facility that has multiple functions wherever you live in this state...

To me the law is clear...If someone is throwing a ball, kicking a fieldgoal, smacking a puck to the net...That is a no go zone...Every single time...

But when there are dinosaurs, Engleberg Humperdink, Disney on Ice or any other non-sporting event...That to me negates the restriction, yet the facility conducts its business as usual...And they do not care about the nuances of the law...So most of us don't even go to events like this because of the ambiguity and un-educated nature of the facility managers and their handlers...

What do we do???

Well we talk about it here, yet it seems even though there are some outstanding discussions about this very issue, no one in Austin every two years seems to have an idea how to clear this up...

There have beena few things going on that have done some good for our side of the equation, like SB501 comes to mind right off the bat...But even then the opponents to that delayed full compliance till the next session two years later...Very frustrating...

Until penalties can be enforced to facilities and businesses that restrict us, against the law mind you...Nothing will happen...

I'm going to take Wife-Unit to the ballet this next weekend...And yes, I will carry, looking very snappy in a suit and tie for that evening...Do I carry because I think the Sugarplum Fairy is going to go postal on stage??? Absolutely not...I carry because I can, and that I will not be spending the night, or a lot of time inside the Wortham Center...I will be in downtown Houston, in public, spending our time walking around, eating and being entertained...Plain and simple...

Explain to me and anyone else why I should walk outside my door for an evening like that and adjust my lifestyle just because some people believe that if it is posted for one type of event, and they have another type of entertainment, that they can restrict, just because???

I know there is something that could be done to correct this issue, and if it takes a bill to correct it, so be it...I think it is a waste of time, yet, if these venues would educate their management and staff that run the facilities, we might not be having these conversations...

Just my opinion...

The Legislature can pass bills and the Governor can sign them, but they do not enforce themselves.

The responsibility for enforcing the law at the local level falls mainly to the county district attorney.

Oh, yeah. Right.

If the DA doesn't do his job, the task falls to one or more citizens whose rights have been infringed to file a lawsuit and get an injunction. That's what happened with most City of Houston facilities, like the airports. It takes money and someone willing to put forth the effort.

I don't know if the state Attorney General can do anything about these issues. Mr. Abbott has generally been on our side, but he hasn't touched this one, AFAIK.

- Jim

stevie_d_64 wrote:To me the law is clear...If someone is throwing a ball, kicking a fieldgoal, smacking a puck to the net...That is a no go zone...Every single time...

Not every time - only High School, College, or pro events. Community youth sports leagues aren't covered.

Keeping it on topic, the Toyota Center has properly sized and worded 30.06 signs posted. 30.05 may let you beat the rap, but not the ride (if you have enough $$$).

Keith

Zero_G wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote:To me the law is clear...If someone is throwing a ball, kicking a fieldgoal, smacking a puck to the net...That is a no go zone...Every single time...

Not every time - only High School, College, or pro events. Community youth sports leagues aren't covered.

Keeping it on topic, the Toyota Center has properly sized and worded 30.06 signs posted. 30.05 may let you beat the rap, but not the ride (if you have enough $$$).

Keith

Yep, you're right...I guess we'd know what the case would be if those games were held in a high school stadium, or other facility like the Toyota Center or Reliant Stadium...Maybe even a college campus facility...