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"TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:30 am
by Syntax360
I'm just wondering how many of you guys have seen
this lovely piece of gun-grabber propaganda written by the Violence Policy Center...? It seems all of us CHL holders are, on the whole, a lesser quality of individual than those who do not have CHLs (statistically, from a crime and violence perspective)...
Re: "TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:48 am
by Kalrog
Uh... I need to go scrub by brain out with a brillow pad for even looking at that link.
Re: "TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:13 am
by Charles L. Cotton
As the title indicated, this was the third "report" VPC published using that bogus title. This one was published in August 2000 and it drew quick response. Largely as a result of this report, Texas law changed as to what could and could not be published by DPS. Most notably, DPS was prohibited from posting arrest statistics, because they were grossly misleading. After the change, DPS can post only convictions. As most people interested in this issue are aware, CHLs are far less likely to commit a crime than the general population, as proven by the now-accurate DPS conviction statistics.
When accurate conviction rates were published, VPC abandoned their three year effort to undermine the Texas CHL program. As a side note, Travis County Constable Bruce Elfant (precinct ?) used the same bogus data to travel to another state (Missouri I believe) to testify in hearing on their CHL bill about how terrible and dangerous it was in Texas since CHL passed. Elfant was reported to have used county funds to fax his anti-gun political propaganda and it was rumored that he used county money to make the trip to Missouri. To my knowledge, this was never confirmed. Of course long time anti-gun Travis County DA Ronnie Earle would never dream of investigating and/or prosecuting Elfant, a fellow anti-gunner!
Chas.
Re: "TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:25 am
by Liko81
OK, so over 4 years, 3,370 crimes were committed by CHLs. I don't have accurate CHL data for all those years but there are roughly 225,000 CHLs in Texas. That means that 3 out of every thousand are arrested for a crime. This is not convictions, only arrests, and crimes for which CHLs were arrested in that time also include trespass by a CHL holder, unlawful carry (failure to conceal or 46.035), and other nonviolent crimes relating to misinformation or misconceptions about a CHL. These comprise the majority of arrests of CHLs.
Even assuming every arrest was for a
malum in se crime such as assault, rape or murder, here are the conclusions of the statistical data provided by the DPS and used by the VPC, only this time it's taken in context:
Since the age/sex demographics of the CHL group is so significantly different from that of the total Texas population, (Notes 1, 2), the comparison of the two groups was made between males age 21 years, CHL v. non-CHL; and females age 21 years, CHL v. non-CHL.
Males:
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The average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 7.7 times more likely to be arrested for the violent crimes of murder, rape, robbery, and assault than the average male CHL holder.
Looking at violent crimes individually, the average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 1.7 times (rate of 7.4 v. 4.3) more likely to be arrested for murder; 87 times (rate of 24 v. 0.3) more likely to be arrested for rape; 53 times (rate of 44 v. 0.8) more likely to be arrested for robbery; 3.4 times (rate of 202 v. 60) more likely to be arrested for aggravated assault; and 10 times (rate of 892 v. 87) more likely to be arrested for other assaults than the average male CHL holder.
No male Texas CHL holder was arrested for negligent manslaughter during the 1996 through 2000 period.
The average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 18 times more likely to be arrested for committing a non-violent crime than the average male CHL holder.
Females:
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The average female Texan who is 21 years or older is 7.5 times more likely to be arrested for the violent crimes of murder and assault than the average female CHL holder.
Looking at violent crimes individually, the average female Texan who is 21 years or older is 2.0 times (rate of 1.2 v. 0.6) more likely to be arrested for murder; 2.5 times (rate of 48 v. 19) more likely to be arrested for aggravated assault; and 17 times (rate of 178 v. 11) more likely to be arrested for other assaults than the average female CHL holder.
No female Texas CHL holder has arrested for negligent manslaughter, rape, or robbery during the 1996 through 2000 period.
The average female Texan who is 21 years or older is 13 times more likely to be arrested for committing a non-violent crime than the average female CHL holder.
Re: "TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:26 pm
by jimlongley
Liko81 wrote:OK, so over 4 years, 3,370 crimes were committed by CHLs. I don't have accurate CHL data for all those years but there are roughly 225,000 CHLs in Texas. That means that 3 out of every thousand are arrested for a crime. This is not convictions, only arrests, and crimes for which CHLs were arrested in that time also include trespass by a CHL holder, unlawful carry (failure to conceal or 46.035), and other nonviolent crimes relating to misinformation or misconceptions about a CHL. These comprise the majority of arrests of CHLs.
Even assuming every arrest was for a malum in se crime such as assault, rape or murder, here are the conclusions of the statistical data provided by the DPS and used by the VPC, only this time it's taken in context:
And to add even further contextual reference, many of the arrests were of the same individual, such as the rape, which was also arrested for sexual assault, assault involving family violence, battery, and a couple of other charges, IIRC. VPC took each arrest as a separate incident and attempted to cover their duplicity by suggesting that DPS accounted for multiple arrests of individuals in their report.
And some of the arrests were for incidents that did not relate to CHL, or even involve a firearm.
And, as Charles mentioned above, an arrest does not equal conviction - several of those arrested were found not guilty, no billed, or even charges dropped before anything else occurred, such as the case of Gordon Hale III, who defended himself and was arrested but no-billed by the grand jury.
The NRA has a counter to this one posted at
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/R ... &issue=003
Re: "TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:42 pm
by Texasdoc
Bruce Elfant, Constable Precinct 5
constable5.com
1003 Guadalupe St.
Austin, TX 78701
Phone: (512) 854-9100
Fax: (512) 854-4228
Warrants: (512 ) 854-9582
Re: "TX CHL Legacy of Crime and Violence"
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:55 pm
by milodog
I read the first few pages and instead of complaining about CHL holders, they should focus on the lax sentences these people received for the crimes they committed.
How does a drunk and wasted person shoot and kill his (Dallas) neighbor and then only receive 10 years probation?
How does someone shoot a security guard, kill another person with an illegally modified silenced weapon and only get 10 years in jail. In Houston of all places?
If these people were serious about ending violence, they should be complaining about the soft sentences these people are receiving.